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bilmul
25-03-2004, 09:10 PM
the question is how do i understand them and use them to help fault diagnosis in the very commercial world of refrigeration where i am not appreciated by the customer (i want it now), my employer (i want it done now) or my wife (i want you home sometime this year, preferably on our wedding anniversary if you can remember the date this year darling)
:cool: :(

Brian_UK
25-03-2004, 11:43 PM
I think your problem is that it can/does take some time to understand psychometrics and the results/effects of changes that you can/do make.

Remember that 'Air Conditioning' is about the control of air quality not just cooling; also of course with refrigeration you are also 'conditioning' the air as well but in a much more restricted space.

It takes time and effort which no doubt your boss is not interested in funding I bet.

Prof Sporlan
26-03-2004, 03:29 AM
Doing psychrometric problems or studying the refrigeration cycle on a P-H diagram isn't particularly difficult, but it does require one to spend some time with it. Particularly with psychrometrics, one normally has to spend time and work out numerous problem examples to get a feel for it.

The Prof finds the ASHRAE Fundamentals Handbook to present a good overview of both psychrometrics and the P-H diagram. The problem is it is a bit terse for the beginner.

Most introductory hvac texts discuss both topics. The Prof would suggest starting there first before locating a copy of the ASHRAE Fundamentals Handbook.

bilmul
26-03-2004, 07:17 PM
thanks brian and the prof
brian was spot on with the comment that my boss will not give me the time moey or resources reqd to investigate further this appears to be a common problem in the fridge industry or is it in all industry.
what i want to do is find out about it, put it into practice and show him that it can work to create a better understanding of refrigeration, then i might get the resources to continue to train other engineers :(

bilmul
26-03-2004, 07:21 PM
re ashrae publications do i need to be a member of ashrae to purchase any of their publications??

Argus
27-03-2004, 12:19 AM
Bilmul


Follow this link to DENCO's site.

http://www.denco.co.uk/

Look at the links there.

They have a number of PDFs produced by this excellent British company in conjunction with the South Bank University.
One of them is an introduction to psychrometics that you can download and work through in your own time.

It's not too easy and not too difficult - in my opinion for the serious technician, just about right.

What's more its free and it's not in Imperial units.


Hope it helps
________
vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/vaporizers)

RogGoetsch
27-03-2004, 02:11 AM
the question is how do i understand them and use them to help fault diagnosis in the very commercial world of refrigeration where i am not appreciated by the customer (i want it now), my employer (i want it done now) or my wife (i want you home sometime this year, preferably on our wedding anniversary if you can remember the date this year darling)
:cool: :(

Two questions, really. Plenty of places to get the info; it'll take study to understand them. No, neither your employer nor the customer is interested in funding the hours it will take. Don't let that stop you if you want to be a pro.

Second question: how to use them to help fault diagnosis. You will learn that through the study, but the quick answer is that you will rarely need them for fault diagnosis. A good step-by-step troubleshooting technique such as the Tech Method (haven't actually seen the text, but judging from Gary's contributions to this forum, it should be very good) would be a much more practical approach.

These analytical tools are more useful in designing systems and in diagnosing bad designs. When you find the system that is underperforming and everything seems to be working perfectly, you may find these things useful. But more than likely, you will be able to find the design flaw without them.

Especially if you have used them to advance your own understanding of the principles involved, they will become part of your thinking.

Back to question one, you may not get paid for the time learning, but if you become a more valuable employee, you will be treated like one.

Best advice I ever received was never to expect to be paid what you're worth. If you want to be paid more than you're making, the first step is to be sure that you're worth more than you're being paid. Always.

(Maybe your wife will accept that explanation when she feels neglected as you burn the midnight oil! Oops, wrong again. I can hear Gary saying: "Do you want to be right or do you want to get laid?")

Rog

Prof Sporlan
27-03-2004, 03:03 PM
What's more its free and it's not in Imperial units.
The Prof would find S-I units a distraction. What are "jewels" anyway? :D

Gary
28-03-2004, 11:22 PM
I can hear Gary saying: "Do you want to be right or do you want to get laid?")

All those words of wisdom, and is this is the phrase that is memorized... LOL