Digital Manifold comparison

[jsherrill77]

I am a HVAC student in training. I'm interested in getting a middle priced range set of digital guages with vacuum reading built in unit too. It would be mainly used for residential units. I'm looking at the mastercool 99103, and the Refco Digimon. I'm leaning towards the Mastercool only because I think it's the better of the two.
I've heard alot of negative reviews on the Refco, but then again I haven't heard any reviews on the Mastercool yet. It just seems to be a more precision based unit to me. If anyone could help me make a more informed decision on this, I'd greatly appreciate it. Also, if there are more choices in the $400 and under price range, drop me a line.

[jsherrill77]

I know i said the mastercool 99103, but i really meant the extended kit with all accesories.

[Brian_UK]

HI and welcome to the site.

Have you tried searching the forum on this subject?

It has been discussed quite heavily in the recent past. :)

[icecube51]

go to site's like "yellow jacket" and many more. they gladly give info and prices.

Ice

[expat]

A good analogue set will always see you right as they always have for the industry 'till now.

If you, like me believe that the digitals are going to take over then take your time with your choice!

Keep researching and don't just go for low prices, as from what I've read this could be a painful and disappointing mistake

[HVACGod]

A good analogue set will always see you right as they always have for the industry 'till now.

If you, like me believe that the digitals are going to take over then take your time with your choice!

Keep researching and don't just go for low prices, as from what I've read this could be a painful and disappointing mistake

If ever there were a perfect example of an oxymoronical statement this would be it. While I agree with the latter portion of your reply - and the middle portion to a lesser degree you could not be more wrong in the former portion. How long anything has been used in any application - in any endeavor has absolutely no bearing on how effective it is - or how acceptable it is when a better way has been developed. Analog gauges have been since day 1 and continue to be today the most unreliable, unstable and inaccurate of all instruments collectively used by the HVAC technician/engineer for diagnostics and analysis. Reading errors - conversion errors only compound their inherent inaccuracies. Suggesting the use of analog gauges are acceptable because they always have been acceptable is ludicrous. Given that line of reasoning why even bother with research and development of anything? Medical, automotive, food processing - all were acceptable in the proper perspective but would you eat a piece of meat that's been stored in close proximity to a chunk of ice as opposed to in a controlled environment? It was good enough until the advent of mechanical refrigeration why not just continue the practice of extracting ice blocks from cave walls to store our perishables in - and save the cost of electricity in the process?

That statement is no more intelligible than the first in your reply to this young tech. Close enough is not acceptable, good enough is not acceptable - analog manifold gauges are not acceptable. They are inaccurate when you take them off the vendor's shelf and continue that decline everytime they are applied.

In response to the OP - visit Digital Zeus there are unbiased evaluation excerpts available there on the 3 primary OEM's that make a valid version of the DMG - you will find Refco there as well - and I would urge you to consider the fact after reading the Refco data that field evaluation of the Mastercool was precluded as a result of that evaluation - many of the components that are incorporated into the finished design of this instrument are similar in the two sets and they are unacceptable for field use - period. We receive reports and user comments on a daily basis and with first hand experience with both sets can tell you the level of unsatisifed users of the MC and Digimon far out weigh those that are satisfied with them.

Search the web - virtually any combination of queries relevant to the digital manifold gauge will return results that include both PROTech and Digital Zeus - read the field collected data available on each of them and make an informed decision based upon your specific application requirements as they compare to the instruments capabilities - because ExPat is correct with one point if no other, a busted digital clock is no better than a busted wind up analog.

There are digital options that fall within your investment constraints of $400.00 look at the Digi-Cool 1600 as a very good option, the seond generation Testo 523 is also one that is a bit more than that without the IR printer option which can be added at anytime. Additionally there still remains a very limited supply of the original 523 for around $350.00 without the software and data cable that facilitates data logging - only just slightly higher than $400.00 when you purchase the instrument, software and communications cable with it. The only place that I am personally aware of that has this model still available is http://www.trutechtools.com - who incidentally now has a Canadian distribution center that I believe facilitates your import of the instrument without the value added tax or whatever ya'll call it. Although the first generation 523 was discontinued in favor of the second generation 523 in many ways the original instrument is still preferred by many techncians. And as important is still has widely available tech support - and it is discussed in depth with comprehensive application data available at PROTech.

Don't jump at the first DMG you see because of price or looks - and certainly I would suggest you research the components (transducers, thermistors and processors) incorporated into each or at the very least reference that data that has been assimilated by other technicians - capabilities of some instruments are not as they are represented to be on some OEM's websites.

[paul_h]

wow, you really hate analogue guages!

[Andy]

Hello Guys:)

just my thoughts. I would like a nice set of digital guages, they would be very useful for recording data, or fault finding where an intermittant fault is present. But I feel that they would get wrecked if you used them everyday, it's hard enough to keep the ordinary gauges clean with some of the crap you find in systems.
Me I have three sets of gauges, all in different states, the newest I use for fault finding and ocasional use, the less good for servicing and the old set for charging oil and working on crappy old systems.

I suppose I will buy a set when they become everyday and cheap, until then I will use ordinary gauges.

Another way to look at it is that control and monitoring systems are getting better, with quite a lot of data being recorded. Better to add some liquid line and discharge temp probes to determine subcool and superheat.

Kind Regards Andy :)

[HVACGod]

Certainly a valid concern Andy - and one which I shared when I began doing research on the digital manifold gauge and it's components sometime ago.

It's important to remember that the DMG utilizes transducers to extract reference pressure values so contaminants are actually less of a concern with the DMG than their analog counterparts.

Andy you've been over to PROTech - take a look at some of not just my own threads but others that are there as well - the DMG's that we are supportive of are exposed to conditions and abuses - and not always intentionally - that the average field technician/engineer won't happen across in the course of his career.

I would not endorse, support or invest in any diagnostics and analysis instrument that could not stand up to daily use in the same conditions in which we all find ourselves routinely. Nor would I expect anyone else to either.

[HVACGod]

wow, you really hate analogue guages!

Is it that obvious?:D

[Doug Lockhart]

Don't just look for a replacement for an analogue set, look for something that makes you money in less time with fewer embarrassing callbacks and last 10X as long.....

Step it up and suit up and show up like a professional...;)

[Graham]

Is there a kit available? Has anyone made anything along the lines of the Fluke PV350? I would like to go this route if the price is right. For the time being I will stick with the old analogue as digital is not a must have.

[glenn1340]

I don`t know about you guys but I prefer analogue gauges be they for refrigerant, fuel, water or whatever; for the simple reason that it`s easier for the mind to take in and analyze the information: Looking at a rising or falling needle on a gauge you can approximate how long it will be before a fan kicks in, a trip or valve operates. That`s the reason why digital watches never took hold: A dial is simpler for the mind to process.
Digital are probably more resistant to abuse than analogue as they have no mechanical parts where as analogue have a bourdon tube, spring and various links that can be damaged.
Over the years the many standard test gauges I`ve come across(the ones used for calibration certification) have always been analogue. I`m not sure but even these days digital gauges are probably tested against a analogue gauge.

[Doug Lockhart]

I don`t know about you guys but I prefer analogue gauges be they for refrigerant, fuel, water or whatever; for the simple reason that it`s easier for the mind to take in and analyze the information: Looking at a rising or falling needle on a gauge you can approximate how long it will be before a fan kicks in, a trip or valve operates. That`s the reason why digital watches never took hold: A dial is simpler for the mind to process.
Digital are probably more resistant to abuse than analogue as they have no mechanical parts where as analogue have a bourdon tube, spring and various links that can be damaged.
Over the years the many standard test gauges I`ve come across(the ones used for calibration certification) have always been analogue. I`m not sure but even these days digital gauges are probably tested against a analogue gauge.

Have a look at digi-cool.....it's got both analogue and digital

[desA]

The simplicity of the analogue gauges is their strength. Calibration against known sources is fairly straightforward.

Digital, with it's electronic bits, is always going to be a calibration & maintenance hassle - unless the infrastructure is in place to maintain them properly.

In developing countries, analogue wins over digital hands down, in my view.

[nike123]

For everyone interested in digital gauges it is good to visit this forum (http://www.hvacprotech.com/index.php?sid=d8219bd57fe45eb9568b368d15b609a4) and learn from experience of users of such gauges.