PDA

View Full Version : Air/Water HP advice please.







Britguy
06-08-2008, 03:30 PM
Hi… my first posting.

My wife and I have moved from sunny Nottingham and bought a house in New Zealand, which is quite large (300m + 60m first floor), with cathedral ceilings to the main living areas. It has solid non-insulated floors and no heating to most areas. I have decided to install UFH and an Air/Water HP.

I’m a Sparky by trade, but I’m hoping to break into the Heat Pump market (it is big here). I have a few questions I will be asking you fellas, but for now I want to know if you can advise me on the actual cost of a suitable air/water HP unit. I have seen the Altherma range mentioned, also the cheaper Chinese units, but as yet I cant see any prices, either trade or retail. As well as this, any other help which you think to make mention of would be appreciated.

The climate here is pretty similar to a UK one, but we do get some real strong UV (thinking of solar panels too)…

PS If I cant get this sorted it might be the last straw! Its bad enough not being able to get decent REAL ALE here, but to be bloody cold as well….. !

nike123
06-08-2008, 05:34 PM
Hi… my first posting.

My wife and I have moved from sunny Nottingham and bought a house in New Zealand, which is quite large (300m + 60m first floor), with cathedral ceilings to the main living areas. It has solid non-insulated floors and no heating to most areas. I have decided to install UFH and an Air/Water HP.



If the house is not well insulated, then UFH (if you mean by that under-floor heating) is not wise solution. It is better to consider fan-coils as heating element.

chemi-cool
06-08-2008, 08:37 PM
Get the most popular HP, this way when you have problems with it [and you will..] you will not have any problems getting spares.


For 360 SqM, you will need a pretty big HP or a few small ones.

stuartwking
06-08-2008, 08:55 PM
Hi britguy,
When it comes to under floor heating its all about insulation.
If your new house is not that well insulated then Rads or fan coils will be your best bet. I would go with Rads.
You should get in touch with a reputable company over there that come survey your house and select the size of system that you need.
Solar kit to heat your water is a really good option which i recon would end up paying for its self.

Britguy
06-08-2008, 10:24 PM
Okay, sorry I didn’t make it too clear in the first post…

Yes UFH means Underfloor heating, in this case reticulated water UFH. This is the best way to heat large spaces, especially when they have high ceilings (these are 6mts high at the apex).

The house is not that old, but kiwi building standards are only just getting nearly in line with European regulations. Most kiwis think that double glazing is a new science and overkill. Nearly everyone here suffers with ‘Crying Window’ syndrome, because their houses are not heated correctly and have little in the way of insulation.


Our house has been built solidly, but suffers from the same ‘lack of heating/insulation’ as most houses do in here.
It is double skin (outer is old brick with 150mm concrete block inner), which in itself is quite rare, as most houses here are timber frame. I have already had the cavities filled with insulation foam. I intend to lath and plasterboard over the concrete block for aesthetic reasons, also adding extra insulation between the PB and block. The old aluminium double glazing is to be replaced by good quality PVC double glazing. The roof is to be insulated with closed cell polyurethane spray foam, which will give it an airtight superior insulation value exceeding most standard builds. The floor screed will have a thermal blanket to insulate the sub floor from the heated screed, this will also be lipped up to insulate the screed from the walls (standard practice).

Therefore, the house will have excellent all round insulation, which would exceed current building standards by a good margin.

Tesla
07-08-2008, 10:18 AM
Holy Sheep Bro
Your best bet is the solar tube heaters for ufh - contact rheem and check net. Use heatpump to top up heat on colder cloudy days. For the heatpump (reverse cycle of course) an r22 scroll (copeland) gives most efficiant result. Or contact the suppliers - patton, r.e.s., kirby for thier advice. Another help would be to grow tall reflecting trees on the south side of section/house to reflect low winter sun and shield those southerly storms. Also 2nd generation pv cells work well in lower light conditions. To save more on energy if you have gas + power, convert to only power or use refillable gas cylinder to avoid the line (gas) rental charges. Solar hear tubes are becoming the norm for new commercial buildings in Sydney. I could go on and on...

kpol
21-08-2008, 09:26 AM
Hi… my first posting.

My wife and I have moved from sunny Nottingham and bought a house in New Zealand, which is quite large (300m + 60m first floor), with cathedral ceilings to the main living areas. It has solid non-insulated floors and no heating to most areas. I have decided to install UFH and an Air/Water HP.

I’m a Sparky by trade, but I’m hoping to break into the Heat Pump market (it is big here). I have a few questions I will be asking you fellas, but for now I want to know if you can advise me on the actual cost of a suitable air/water HP unit. I have seen the Altherma range mentioned, also the cheaper Chinese units, but as yet I cant see any prices, either trade or retail. As well as this, any other help which you think to make mention of would be appreciated.

The climate here is pretty similar to a UK one, but we do get some real strong UV (thinking of solar panels too)…

PS If I cant get this sorted it might be the last straw! Its bad enough not being able to get decent REAL ALE here, but to be bloody cold as well….. !
Spend your money on insulation first, then low temp UFH , and heat pump, but please note water to water heat pumps even thou they are more expensive are a much better solution.

sighman
29-08-2008, 01:20 PM
Hi,

where in NZ are you? I only ask as it makes a big difference on how successful a heatpump water heater would be..........remember a lot of these are made/designed for Australia market and as such are rated at 7°C ambient, make sure the unit will give you the Kw you need for heating at lower ambients.

Also remember that you get what you pay for..........Mitsubishi and Daikin are both launching these products in next few months in NZ, I don't have prices yet....

brunstar
21-02-2009, 12:06 AM
have you got your underfloor air to water source heat pump yet?

do you have a heat loss on your property? depending on where you are located you may need about 18kw or so.

yangchenchen
04-05-2009, 08:03 AM
If you are rich, you buy a expensive one, if you don't have much money, you buy a cheaper one.

nike123
04-05-2009, 08:11 AM
If you are rich, you buy a expensive one, if you don't have much money, you buy a cheaper one.

If you are poor and buy cheap one, you will be more poorer in future!;)

Greengrocer
05-05-2009, 10:08 PM
Holy Sheep Bro
Your best bet is the solar tube heaters for ufh - contact rheem and check net. Use heatpump to top up heat on colder cloudy days. For the heatpump (reverse cycle of course) an r22 scroll (copeland) gives most efficiant result. Or contact the suppliers - patton, r.e.s., kirby for thier advice. Another help would be to grow tall reflecting trees on the south side of section/house to reflect low winter sun and shield those southerly storms. Also 2nd generation pv cells work well in lower light conditions. To save more on energy if you have gas + power, convert to only power or use refillable gas cylinder to avoid the line (gas) rental charges. Solar hear tubes are becoming the norm for new commercial buildings in Sydney. I could go on and on...

R22??? That was banned from all new HP A/C installations in the UK & Europe in 2004. What ECO credentials are you guys working with over there?

ecohometec
22-08-2009, 12:28 AM
Hi… my first posting.

My wife and I have moved from sunny Nottingham and bought a house in New Zealand, which is quite large (300m + 60m first floor), with cathedral ceilings to the main living areas. It has solid non-insulated floors and no heating to most areas. I have decided to install UFH and an Air/Water HP.

I’m a Sparky by trade, but I’m hoping to break into the Heat Pump market (it is big here). I have a few questions I will be asking you fellas, but for now I want to know if you can advise me on the actual cost of a suitable air/water HP unit. I have seen the Altherma range mentioned, also the cheaper Chinese units, but as yet I cant see any prices, either trade or retail. As well as this, any other help which you think to make mention of would be appreciated.

The climate here is pretty similar to a UK one, but we do get some real strong UV (thinking of solar panels too)…

PS If I cant get this sorted it might be the last straw! Its bad enough not being able to get decent REAL ALE here, but to be bloody cold as well….. !

Hi Brightguy, I have been designing and supplying renewable system including electrical and hydraulic schematics. And in my time I have gathered a vast amount of knowledge on heat pumps, UFH, SOLAR and cylinders. To be honest with you I would advise having a SAP report done and this will provide the accurate sizing for the heat pump and also if you are looking at an air source heat pump i would avoid solar the increased cost is negligible when you look at the performance in the summer months.

If i can offer any free independent advice please contact me

brunstar
22-08-2009, 10:07 AM
Hi Brightguy, I have been designing and supplying renewable system including electrical and hydraulic schematics. And in my time I have gathered a vast amount of knowledge on heat pumps, UFH, SOLAR and cylinders. To be honest with you I would advise having a SAP report done and this will provide the accurate sizing for the heat pump and also if you are looking at an air source heat pump i would avoid solar the increased cost is negligible when you look at the performance in the summer months.

If i can offer any free independent advice please contact me

I agree with ecometech in relation to an adequate heat loss calculation on the property.
If the insulation properties are not that good ont he property this wil be the first step, to increase the insulation levels before trying to heat the property as this will assist with reduced running costs.

In relation to prices, the distributers for Daikin and New Zealand have now got prices so you may want to contact them for prices.

As for a chinese system, be careful, some people say cheap and cheerful but in my opinion of support when the unit is not working which will be most likely on something cheap, this is the most important.
go for a well known brand for support as chinese = cheap and nasty.

I hope that this helps you make you decision.

ecohometec
22-08-2009, 07:58 PM
If it helps with making you mind up i can supply a delonghi unit at a more than competative price and supply the components to connect the system into your internet .
If you ever have any issues then i can log inot the system, find the fault and resolve it if its just s set point issue of find the faulty part if so required.

mad fridgie
27-08-2009, 09:36 AM
What a major job, you have to lay a new floor. Would recommend floor mounted split systems (make sure air discharges from the bottom)

KibGaimb73
30-10-2009, 03:52 PM
Help - in ground pool - gurgling in suction line / pump will not completely fill / producing continuous air bubbles in return lines - what is the problem / solution ??