Empty compressor - add oil

[krish]

I have a 2ton Tecumseh for R22 that needs
1141cc of MO or AB oil.
The evap coil is gonna be replaced as well.
The seller of the compressor says that there is
no oil in it. My tech says that the oil is in the R22
cylinder and the compressor does not need any.

I have a 1 galllon can of Zero 150(AB oil).
Rather than argue with the tech, i am going to
tip over the compressor, remove the rubber plugs,
see if any oil drains.
If no oil drains, which i think is what i expect, i want
to measure and fill 1141cc (38.5fl. oz) of Zerol 150.

The tech will then do the removal of the old comp/evap and replace with the new comp and
evap.

I believe that AB is much more resilient to
moisture absorbtion. So adding oil a few minutes
prior to him installing the comp and pulling vaccum
should work.

I will have the tech blow the copper tubes when
the comp and evap are removed. This should hopefully remove any old mineral oil in the copper
lines.

Any one see any pitfalls in
a) Me adding the 1141cc of oil.
b) Adding the oil a few minutes prior to installation.
c) blowing the copper tubes with air to flush MO,
then braze the comp/evap, pull vaccum and
add R22.
Kris

[Peter_1]

I have a 2ton Tecumseh for R22 that needs
1141cc of MO or AB oil.
The evap coil is gonna be replaced as well.
The seller of the compressor says that there is
no oil in it. My tech says that the oil is in the R22
cylinder and the compressor does not need any.

I have a 1 galllon can of Zero 150(AB oil).
Rather than argue with the tech, i am going to
tip over the compressor, remove the rubber plugs,
see if any oil drains.
If no oil drains, which i think is what i expect, i want
to measure and fill 1141cc (38.5fl. oz) of Zerol 150.

The tech will then do the removal of the old comp/evap and replace with the new comp and
evap.

I believe that AB is much more resilient to
moisture absorbtion. So adding oil a few minutes
prior to him installing the comp and pulling vaccum
should work.

I will have the tech blow the copper tubes when
the comp and evap are removed. This should hopefully remove any old mineral oil in the copper
lines.

Any one see any pitfalls in
a) Me adding the 1141cc of oil.
b) Adding the oil a few minutes prior to installation.
c) blowing the copper tubes with air to flush MO,
then braze the comp/evap, pull vaccum and
add R22.
Kris

I see some faults/pitfalls:
if the old should be above the pistons - not the cylinder - then I have 2 questions: 1. what should happen when you start the compressor under these conditions and 2. how can the manufacturer get oil above the pistons?

Most - I don't know any others - are pre-filled with the necessary oil.

If you replace evaporator and compressor, why not replacing the R22? This is one of the most important things you have to do. What you do is strictly forbidden in Europe.

Flushing the lines with air is a very bad bad practice.

You may not have more than 5% MO in the new AB oil solution. There are testers for this.

Brazing with OFN.

[krish]

The compressor is a hermetically sealed scroll type unit.
So, to answer the question on what
will happen when the compressor is
started, i see this Youtube video.
Since i cannot post weblinks as yet,
go to youtube.com and search for
"oil-top-up on hermetic compressors."

Good question on how the oil can
be purged, if it is below the
compressor in the sump at the bottom.
Replacing the R22 is a good idea. Did
not think about it. I will ask the tech
what needs to be done.
Tnx
Krish

[Peter_1]

So, to answer the question on what
will happen when the compressor is
started, i see this Youtube video.
Since i cannot post weblinks as yet,
go to youtube.com and search for
"oil-top-up on hermetic compressors."

Good question on how the oil can
be purged, if it is below the
compressor in the sump at the bottom.
Replacing the R22 is a good idea. Did
not think about it. I will ask the tech
what needs to be done.
Tnx
Krish

You don't get my point, if there's oil above the piston, then the compressor will block because you can't pump liquid.
On a hermetic, you have to poor ot by turning it upside down.

Changing to R404a or R507c, change additional the TEV and that's it. And you will protect the environment.

[krish]

Thanks. I understand now.
So you say that
i should instead pour it into the liquid
line or the high pressure side rather
than thru the suction side.

Also good to know the R22 ozone
friendly alternatives.

Kris

[casstrig]

Please note that on a hermetic compressor the suction conection does not conect directly to the pump but to the crankcase,it is the discharge conection that is piped to the pump,so put the oil in the suction .

[dsandlin]

I would not use air to purge the system. Dry nitrogen would be my first choice. Air will only add moisture to the system.

On many compressors there is a port on the side of the compressor just for adding oil. I do not know what the model # of the compressor is so I can't tell you for sure if it has one.

As far as the oil on top of the pistons is concerned; scroll compressors do not have pistons. If you add oil to the suction let the compressor sit for a considerable time (while evacuating) before starting. Most of the oil will migrate to the crankcase.

[krish]

Thanks a lot for the advice.
This is the compressor - AWG5524EXN
with a
Bill of Material# -W705ET-094-A4

The large suction line 0.75inch dia
is at the top of the casing.
The discharge line is 0.375inch and
is at the bottom and kind of loops
back up a few inches from the bottom.
Oil capacity - 1141cc

Will allow it to sit for a while during
evacuation and will have the tech
purge the lines with Nitrogen.
Krish

[Brian_UK]

I think that there may be some confusion over the location of the old oil.

Perhaps his Tech meant that the oil was with the R22 in the refrigerant cylinder although that doesn't mean the total charge is there....

The new hermetic compressor will have an oil charge in it already I'm sure, check with the supplier/manufacturer. If you add more oil then you will cause performance problems and possibly damage the compressor when it has double the amount of oil inside it.

Do not use air in the pipes, use nitrogen only and oxygen free nitrogen at that.

Do you pipework brazing first, change any parts next (filters etc) then fit the compressor.

Pressure test it then evacuate it.

If you do have to add oil, which I doubt, add it to the suction side of the compressor, the vacuum will help pull it in.

[krish]

Thanks to everyone that helped me with information.
We had the work done today.

The compressor apparently already had oil in it.
The seller provided me mis-information.

As suggested, he evacuated the R22, cut the
tubing off for the evap coil, put the new evap coil,
rebraced the lines.
Then wen to the condensor unit, cut the
return line and used the torch to remove the brace
and pulled the liquid line out.

He then got the old compressor out. We found that
the new compressor was off as far as alignment of
the return and liquid lines. One reason it was darn
cheap - A manufactuer mistake on the assembly
line perhaps.

Anyway, he did some plumbing, then rebraced the
tubes and then pulled vaccum. It sat for a while.

Once vaccum was pulled, he charged the refrigerant. The system is now running fine with a
15degree difference between the outside and the
inside and the compressor is working like a charm.

He installed a filter dryer on the liquid line near
the evap coil.

So far so good.

Thanks again
Krish

[Peter_1]

The compressor apparently already had oil in it.
The seller provided me mis-information.

Speaking of a seller, is he selling fish otherwise?
Like Brian said, every compressor is precharged with the right amount oil.
Did you use R404a?

[krish]

Fish. HeHeHe:o
Btw, sorry. No. Could not do the R404A this time
around. The Tech had the R22 with him and he said
that he did not have the 404A in his van. So had no
option, but to let him finish the installation.

Krish

[Peter_1]

A tech without R404a in his van?
Certainly a tech who doesn't care about the environment and doesn't want a more healthy future for our kids.

[The MG Pony]

Hey in the US they still can use recoverd R-12, and they scramble to buy left over R-12.

Environment all ways takes back seat to money to the hacks.

[AlexLPD]

I think that there may be some confusion over the location of the old oil.

Perhaps his Tech meant that the oil was with the R22 in the refrigerant cylinder although that doesn't mean the total charge is there....

The new hermetic compressor will have an oil charge in it already I'm sure, check with the supplier/manufacturer. If you add more oil then you will cause performance problems and possibly damage the compressor when it has double the amount of oil inside it.

Do not use air in the pipes, use nitrogen only and oxygen free nitrogen at that.

Do you pipework brazing first, change any parts next (filters etc) then fit the compressor.

Pressure test it then evacuate it.

If you do have to add oil, which I doubt, add it to the suction side of the compressor, the vacuum will help pull it in.


Hi Im located in México, and recently I have to replace a scroll compresor 18 000 BTU or 1.5RT and... Has a big label saying: This compresos has no oil in it, add oil... So i look up in the web and nothing... so add about 600ml, and worked... until know... same client call me yesterday, the same compresor was burnout ... It works around 8 months... I still think the lack of the rigth amount of oil was a big trouble... But in any case.. Any one know were can be found this type of data???

Thanks in advance...

[Peter_1]

Hi Im located in México, and recently I have to replace a scroll compresor 18 000 BTU or 1.5RT and... Has a big label saying: This compresos has no oil in it, add oil... So i look up in the web and nothing... so add about 600ml, and worked... until know... same client call me yesterday, the same compresor was burnout ... It works around 8 months... I still think the lack of the rigth amount of oil was a big trouble... But in any case.. Any one know were can be found this type of data???

Thanks in advance...

1. Brand of compressor you installed?
2. I doubt you had a burnt compressor due to lack of oil. Was the replacement also for a burnt compressor?

[AlexLPD]

Well the original compresor was an LG, this recently burn out compresor is an Techumsehn?... And is made in USA... "or the label say so".... The code I dont have tomorrow try to post it, however...
Yes the las compresor was a burn out too, and I changue the filter on the suction line, and flush the lines (since is an cold only unit, it has a capillar instead a expasion valve). I check the amps in the hot time... and was correct, the pressures also were correct... Maybe a bad compresor?

[Peter_1]

You flushed the lines with nitrogen?
Is there a suction accumulator?

[AlexLPD]

Ahmmm yes I first clean the pipes from the oil and burn out particles, with R-11 or so... And after we weld, test for leaks with N·3.. later on, make the vaccum.. There is no suction acumulator, because this is a mini-split. I belive the small tank thath comes with each new compresor is a liquid reservory but, I havent think too much. :-p

[moondawn]

hi there is the compressor a rotary compressor, they have a tank on the side of the compressor which is to help with liquid coming back to the compressor.

cheers lee

[Fri3Oil System]

Hi,

you speak about Nitrogen as if it was really miscible with the oils, "blow with nitrogen and you will push the oil out"... well, it can push some oil out due to pressure differential, but all that oil remaining in the circuit syphons won't exit with N2. And sometimes(many times) this part can be above the recommended 3 or 5% of the new oil(in case of a retrofit).

Regards,

Nando.

[AlexLPD]

Welly welly my dears friends.... I have done something terible XD... I will coment, however I was aware of the dangers and stuffs so, dont grief me... Just for fun;
First... disassembly the minisplit unit(condenser and difusser) take to the shop. De-weld the burn out compressor.. And... Clean alll the condeser unit pipes inyecting pressurised thiner... YES laccer thinner... with air, YES AIR not N3... Do the same thing on the diffuser. Affter repeat the process about 3 or 4 times in each piece you can see the thinner coming clearly.. Leave the air for about 10 min hook up to the compresor @100PSI ... Then flush the remaining air with N3... Weld the compressor and VAC... Recharge with N3 and VAC... I will put 2 filters one in the sucction and one in the liquid line... I konw this is the worse manner to do so... but this is experimentation... My bes guess is... the debirss are much worse for the compresor than 3 or 4 mol of thinner rigth?¿?

[Peter_1]

Alex, I've done something similar in the past with good results. If you vac it, then all the thinner will be gone...I guess..

[AlexLPD]

Yes in did... today I mount the enteire unit... it performs well in deed, its almost the same than a brand new ... (witch is good becouse this is a 6yr old unit). And I will kept an eye on this, to see if anything goes bad, wrong or straigth to hell... IOL... Thanks for the infomation comunity... And thank to you Peter.