Need advice for proper ventalation and cooling for busy Irish Pub(400 people)

[Sumoguy]

Pub has rooftop H.V.A.C. system that handles load during normal operating hours. On nights with max. occupancy (400 people) Pub becomes like a sweat box. Pub is on bottom floor of 3 storey office building. Fresh air ventalation, exhaust and cooling could possibly be done with through the wall units and ductless mini-splits. What`s the best cost effective and long term solution for the Pub....Cheers from Canada...

[Abby Normal]

pub space was probably originally set aside as office space.

Where are you in Canada, different answer for Vancouver as opposed to winterpeg

[Contactor]

Water cooled condenser?

[chemi-cool]

If you use the outside air for cooling at night you kill two birds with one stone, reduce the temp and change the air, you will need many air changes per hour.

[multisync]

If you use the outside air for cooling at night you kill two birds with one stone, reduce the temp and change the air, you will need many air changes per hour.

All in all I would agree but-

That will naturally work during the cooler nights, in peak summer trying to cool a building with 20+ C air is likely to fail
(depending upon location)

Then there is noise breakout which fans (esp in night clubs) always suffer from

Multisync
London

[chemi-cool]

I wonder how many nights per year, you will get over 20°C anywhere in Canada.

Fans do not have to be noisy, there are quite fans, I will get you a link later.

[al]

Hey

Hold on there a minute, irish pubs=lots of drink, hence lots of sweat and lots more drink, cool the place effectively and watch the profits plummet:o:off topic:

al

[Sumoguy]

Thx for reply guys....Pub is located near Toronto, and if water cooled unit was installed would have to be on a closed loop system that might become too costly for Pub? The additional cooling would be required for 6-8 hours a night on Thurs, Fridays and Saturdays. Does 200 Ft cubed/sec (6m cubed/sec) of fresh air ventilation and approximately 18-20 tons (72KW) of cooling sound reasonable...or is it too much?

[yinmorrison]

I tend to agree with Al as a lot of my Customers with nightclubs only want partial cooling for this very reason.Make the kids sweat and keep the profits up.

[superswill]

would a Lossnay system be any good (LGH series) free cooling

http://www.mitsubishi-aircon.co.uk/default.asp?url=http://www.mitsubishi-aircon.co.uk/mitsubishi_electric.asp?id=120065


https://www.mrslim.com/Products/Category.asp?ProductCategoryID=23

other manufactures are available

[yinmorrison]

Sounds about spot on Sumoguy but let your client think about the other point.

[eggs]

400 people = 4000 litres per second minimum.
Have a look at these (http://www.ves.co.uk/product_pdfs/MAX.pdf).
This is the type of thing you need.
If cash is a bit tight, you might look at using some long cased axial fans, with a few silencers.

[chemi-cool]

Take a look at the Fedders Addison web site, Addison was making superb 100% fresh air packages,

[Abby Normal]

Thx for reply guys....Pub is located near Toronto, and if water cooled unit was installed would have to be on a closed loop system that might become too costly for Pub? The additional cooling would be required for 6-8 hours a night on Thurs, Fridays and Saturdays. Does 200 Ft cubed/sec (6m cubed/sec) of fresh air ventilation and approximately 18-20 tons (72KW) of cooling sound reasonable...or is it too much?

Well they are already open so it does not sound like there is going to be a building permit involved, but you should still give them some air, at least 10 CFM per person, good thing they banned smoking in Ontario.

So in the heat of the summer, you can get a worse place dewpoint of about 71 in the TO area.

To do this job right you will need reheat, probably 35 to 40 tons of cooling, then reheating.

I would look size the system to handle the load of the people only plus the ventialtion. Any heat from from lights bar equipment will be your friend as you will need the reheat in there.

I would have a system that could take about 4000 CFM of outside air and perhaps 1000 CFM of return air. You need a fair bit of exhaust as well.

This sounds like it will blow your budget to do it right, but I have some Engineered Air equipment that could handle this doing a night club in the Caribbean.

When it is not a heat wave out, something with a lot of outside air will cool it fine, they will need cooling in the winter as well.

Otherwise, slap in some exahust and as many mini-splits as they can afford.

No matter what you do it is going to be hot and sweaty this time of year. But when they are hot, they drink more.

[Sumoguy]

Thanks guys..first time I ever posted on forum...its pretty cool site...look like there going for the ductless with fresh air and exhaust...told them to think of putting proper proper air exchanger if they plan on staying in that location for a long time.

[chemi-cool]

I have attached a picture of Jet air diffusers, these will throw air over 20 M.

They come in diameters from 6" to 16"

[Andy]

I have attached a picture of Jet air diffusers, these will throw air over 20 M.

They come in diameters from 6" to 16"

Hello Chemi:)

I used the exact same jet difusers to cool a large high ceiling bakery, 19m throw, work very well.:)

Kind Regards Andy

[Abby Normal]

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