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keepitcool
11-07-2008, 01:09 PM
I was reading an article in the "Condenser" (a magazine by IIAR) about the code change for these control boxes. I was wondering if anyone is still installing them and general opinions about the value of having one on a system.

US Iceman
11-07-2008, 02:59 PM
I seem to remember Chicago having a requirement for this but they were called something like a fireman's dump station at one time, or something like that.

The local codes are what you have to follow. Not every city or county has the same safety codes required. It depends on how current the politicians are with amending old rules and regulations.

I think these boxes are a holdover of the old days. Much like the emergency water tanks for absorbing ammonia.

But, it all depends on the local codes...

NH3LVR
12-07-2008, 03:02 AM
My locale requires the boxes and tanks for the relief valves to dump into.
I was in Alaska some time ago and a fireman asked me which valves to turn in a emergency. With all the valves in the box he had no chance of getting it right.
They sound good and a intelligent operator might make use of them. But an untrained individual would not have the ability to make the correct decisions.

Grizzly
12-07-2008, 08:31 AM
My locale requires the boxes and tanks for the relief valves to dump into.
I was in Alaska some time ago and a fireman asked me which valves to turn in a emergency. With all the valves in the box he had no chance of getting it right.
They sound good and a intelligent operator might make use of them. But an untrained individual would not have the ability to make the correct decisions.


Agood point about the valve issue NH3LVR.
I was once sent a "Company Directive" from the Health and Safety's Head of Department.

Stating that "We" the Company Site Engineers were to idendify the Plant's Main
Isolation Valves.
So that whenever the Emergency Services had to attend site they knew which Valves to shut.

I Politely asked (which is unusual for me!) " Which one of the 70 Isolation Valves they would like me to Identfy?"

Cheers Grizzly:D

US Iceman
12-07-2008, 06:04 PM
Agood point about the valve issue NH3LVR.
I was once sent a "Company Directive" from the Health and Safety's Head of Department.

Stating that "We" the Company Site Engineers were to identify the Plant's Main
Isolation Valves.
So that whenever the Emergency Services had to attend site they knew which Valves to shut.

I Politely asked (which is unusual for me!) " Which one of the 70 Isolation Valves they would like me to Identify?"

Cheers Grizzly:D

This begs another question too....

Why not provide periodic training to the local emergency services so that when something does happen, they are more familiar with the valve arrangements and operation?

Nothing like a good emergency to have something else go wrong.:eek:

keepitcool
14-07-2008, 11:03 AM
What I don't like is these boxes is that they are designed to make a quick dump of the system in case of a fire, but they are mounted to the wall of the room they are designed to protect. No fireman in his right mind is going to walk up to an unfamiliar box and turn valves that he doesn't know what they do next to a burning building. I don't blame them either. I know what valves to turn and I would not do it.

Me2Mike
16-07-2008, 01:22 AM
Hello fell Nh3 Engineers, My facility has a diffusion fire dump system we have been told by our sewage regulating agency that we are not permitted to use the device that only the Fire Dept can use the device. The local fFre agency tells us they are not permitted to operate the dump system. Obviously
in a dire emergency it would be used and fines paid after the fact.
Nh3 system has been in continuous operation other than power failure since 1974....

US Iceman
16-07-2008, 03:20 AM
...we have been told by our sewage regulating agency that we are not permitted to use the device that only the Fire Dept can use the device. The local fFre agency tells us they are not permitted to operate the dump system.


Now doesn't this make you ask the question: Why do we need it, if no one can use it?:D

zolimer
21-07-2008, 03:04 PM
My plant has an emergency control panel, no electronics, just valves. My plant was built two years ago, so it is relatively new! It is located in North Carolina, USA!
The control panel has a placard that states " For fire department use only"! So if caught in a situation that would require that kind of action, I would not arbitrarily start turning valves! I would require a go ahead from someone a little higher in the food chain! In that case it would probably be too late any way! Thank you for bringing this up! I am going to ask the plant engineer to schedule some training for our HAZMAT team and try to get the fire department involved!