Mapp gas for brazing???

[WaterholeWally]

I don't use mapp gas, and I've noticed it mentioned. Is it used for brazing line-sets? What are the limitations?

Thanks

[chemi-cool]

You will need a diferent tip, No. 4 is what I use.

I solder pipes up to 2 1\8 without any problems.

Rods with 2% silver.

[viamphie]

I use mapgas on its own using a brazing torch and I find its only really good for anything upto 7/8, anything larger and I use any oxy rig

[Brian_UK]

You can go to larger sizes with a double burner nozzle on Mappgas.

[viamphie]

ive seen them but I haven't used them...... whats the size capable

[marc5180]

I have the Double nozzle one and it does up to 1" 3/8th.

[viamphie]

thats good enough for majority of installs amd you dont have to carry a heavy rig everywhere

[star882]

I have used MAPP gas for up to an evaporator block. It takes a while for the block but it works. For pipes, it's easy.

There is also oxy-propane. Not sure how it compares to plain MAPP, however.

[old gas bottle]

its dead handy for smaller stuff and saves carting the bottles arround,you can get through a few refills though,install,s with a fair bit to do means setting the oxy/accet pack up with the pepper pot nozzle on.quicker,better and cheaper ;)

[nevgee]

We use MAPP gas with a shield attached it is quite good up to 7/8 copper tube only and the braze joint needs to be away from any large mass of metal as the heat can be drawn away just as fast as you apply it. Can be very difficult outdoors if there is a breeze, then some wind break needs to used.

[philfridge]

Used Mapp gas for twenty years no problem with shield upto 1 1/8 with single burner. I know you can get get the double burner which would braze the larger pipes quicker.

[icecube51]

its quick, nice to handle,easy on flask change ,no big bottles and flex to hump around, just be careful outdoors and windy.:eek:

Ice

[Pooh]

Having been brought up on Oxy Acetylene I do not like MAPP Gas for brazing fridge pipe its OK for plumbers but it does too much damage to the pipe for my liking due to the lenght of time it takes to get the pipe up to temperature. Unless you are nitrogen purging you are going to get far more oxidisation in the pipework than with Oxy Acet due to the heat spread along the pipe, we did an experiment and on 7/8" we got three times as much oxidisation inside the pipe and it took 5 times as long as with Oxy Acet.
Another issue is the annealing along more of the pipe due to the spread.
Totally useless for doing coil end as you cannot get a small enough flame to not effect the other joints.
My opinion is that its OK for plumbers but no good for fridge engineers and its only lazziness that stops Oxy Acet being used.
I will not let it be used on fridge pipe in our department.


Stand back and wait for the bullits.

Ian

[R1976]

Rat-a-tat-tat ;)

[superswill]

mapp gas up to 5/8 then find this a great hand for doing pot changes and leaks (see pic) anything really big (and can park near) its the big boy bottles

[snoring beagle]

I only use it for Harris Stay Bright 8. On smaller pipe up to 1 3/8. Any piping that vibrates or larger gets nitrogen and oxy-acetylene using silver.

[Jadeair]

Love my mapp gas.
Very handy, but haven't seen a double nozzle/burner. Tried to google it but got nothing.
My little torch will do up to 1'1/8 if there's no wind and a little patience, other wise the oxcy comes out..

[Brian_UK]

Jadeair, I got my double nozzle from Climate Center some time ago.

Here's a link to the Rothenberger (USA) site that details the torch.
http://www.rothenberger-usa.com/fileadmin/fm_usa/Product_Catalog/section_6-FINAL-lo-res.pdf

[Jadeair]

Thank's Brian, always on the look out for a new toy, I mean tool.

[Brian_UK]

They do issue a warning with it as well - it makes a lot of noise!

It does ;)

[fazzamouse]

you an get a accet only kit from boc,very handy and heats up quicker than mapp gas

[marc5180]

I have just got the set that Superswill uses. Much better imo and heats up much faster than the mapp gas and has a smaller flame, handy for those tricky braizes.

[nevgee]

...... Unless you are nitrogen purging you are going to get far more oxidisation in the pipework than with Oxy Acet due to the heat spread along the pipe, ....... we got three times as much oxidisation inside the pipe and it took 5 times as long as with Oxy Acet.

Ian

Pooh !

Surely you're not suggesting you don't purge with ofn when brazing? :eek: ;);)

[raz5]

Pooh !

Surely you're not suggesting you don't purge with ofn when brazing? :eek: ;);)


ROFLMAO :D

[WINJA]

you an get a accet only kit from boc,very handy and heats up quicker than mapp gas
but then youd have to deal with BOC :mad:

[wheresmyspanner]

great for lighting bbq too

[chris96]

Love the mapp gas, saves me dragging the oxy kit all over the place.....although if it's windy you'll struggle at anything over 5/8. Also its only good for simple brazing, don't try to braze anything like a reversing valve or anacondas as it takes so long to heat up there's massive heat spread!!!

[richardb14]

no one use mapp gas and oxygen?
its great!

A lot of places are not letting us use Acetylene on their premises, this is mostly hospitals / medical.

[leftjobrunning]

If you are going to do more than 5 or 6 joints on more than 5/8 tube then you are as well bringing the oxy rig in from the van, it takes ages to get proper heat into the pipe with Mapp Gas.

Also wouldn't use to brave TEV's or other components, the heat spreads too far and for too long, you risk damaging these components.

I shout at my apprentices when I see them even getting a bottle of it out the van!

[Grizzly]

Truth be told, I like a lot of the guys have said on this thread.
Prefer to use Oxy acetylene as the hotter heat source, keeps the heat more local.
As Richard b points out there are a rising number of sites. Who are banning the use of acetylene.
I recently had to replace a liquid line filter (2) core assembly on 1 5/8" pipes with 1 end within say 8" of the liquid line isolation valve.
This repair was outside when it was windy.
I had already used my newly acquired double barrelled Turbo torch.
To silver solder the two tails into the filter body (Prior to going to site. Just in case I needed to use the trusty porta pack)
It worked fine.
Not the same when on site though.
Because of the total mass of the filter body, pipe and Isolation valve (which had to be covered with a wet rag as it held the system charge on the other side).
When it came to brazing the pipes it ended up with 3 of us applying heat.
1 with a turbo torch another with a maxi gas (same as shown by Superswill) and me with the double barrelled Turbo torch.
Despite using 15% silver content rods ( they melt at lower temps!) there was so much residual heat around that the Isolation Valve started to smoke!!!!
Luckily we managed to get enough heat at the joint for the braze to flow but it was a close call.
So to summarise
In some circumstances I have yet to discover a viable alternative to Oxy- Acety. (IE. Any pipes bigger than say 1.5")

Hopefully a alternative will be found?
But the dreaded H&S is making it harder to use

Grizzly
PS HRP sell the D/Barrelled Turbo Torches.

[jose regueiro]

uniweld.com/catalog/air_gas/unitorch/rp3t3.htm
have 3 tips.

[paul_h]

Love the mapp gas, saves me dragging the oxy kit all over the place.....although if it's windy you'll struggle at anything over 5/8. Also its only good for simple brazing, don't try to braze anything like a reversing valve or anacondas as it takes so long to heat up there's massive heat spread!!!

If you are going to do more than 5 or 6 joints on more than 5/8 tube then you are as well bringing the oxy rig in from the van, it takes ages to get proper heat into the pipe with Mapp Gas.

Also wouldn't use to brave TEV's or other components, the heat spreads too far and for too long, you risk damaging these components.

I shout at my apprentices when I see them even getting a bottle of it out the van!Exactly my usage and beliefs. I use it for normal small diameter pipe joins, not for heaps of welds, or to anything that's going to suck up heat like compressors or be heat damaged like reversing valves or TX etc

[scottishladx]

Canny beat the old turbo torch on the small stuff,great for sweating/welding capillaries,dryers etc.

Amazing for camping :D

[Mazdamike]

Hi All, Mapp gas+turbo torch, just the job for a fast evap defrost.;)

[frederik79]

Hi All, Mapp gas+turbo torch, just the job for a fast evap defrost.;)


turbo torch great to start a BBQ :p

3/8 1/2 not more :confused: (turbo torch)

[viamphie]

Hi All, Mapp gas+turbo torch, just the job for a fast evap defrost.;)

I use a Black & Decker paint stripper gun for defrosting

[cadwaladr]

i use mapp gas combined with oxy on my rig works 100% ,it contains some acetylene,the latter is the daddy but oh so heavy,when i use my rig outdoors it seems to attract a breeze?

[tonyhavcr]

Oxy acetylene with Uniweld MTF-2 5 1/2" Cap'n Hook tips great for brass to copper. try it you will love it

[idecrio716]

mapp gas is only good for small pipes not more than 5/8,but a double torch will do the trick with a shield.
i still love oxy-accyt.its fast and no risk of damaging any components due to longer time heating and heat travel through pipes.
oxy accyt still saves money and effort.except for a hole in the pipe,hehehe!

[idecrio716]

before i used 2 mapp gas and 2 torches,combined and wrapped 2 mapp tanks with an electrical tape,with big pipes,crazy thing huh,but it works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but then again,i turned back to oxy-accyt.hahaha

[jsimon]

I worked with an ozzie guy who used air/acetylene never seen one before or since
only had to carry the one bottle super fast
has anybody any info ?

[Tesla]

HI Guys and Girls
There have been many advances in technology since 2008 when this post first started. At the ARBS exibition in Sydney this year I saw the new system - It uses a map gas and same size oxy bottle, only weighs about 7kg or less. Can do what the old oxy accetalyne did and costs about Au$500 for regs and hoses. Does anyone know how to make this message box I'm writing in bigger?

[monkey spanners]

I worked with an ozzie guy who used air/acetylene never seen one before or since
only had to carry the one bottle super fast
has anybody any info ?

I think Rothenberger make one, have a look in their catalogue.

Jon :)

[flyinkiwi]

I worked with an ozzie guy who used air/acetylene never seen one before or since
only had to carry the one bottle super fast
has anybody any info ?

I would post a link if I could, but uniweld's website have air-acetylene handles listed.

There was one in the tool store when I worked at macca's - I used it once on a comp change in a ceiling with difficult access.... for the hassle it was to use and relatively poor heating I would have been better to have taken the time to drag an oxy bottle up as well.

[palmerm]

turbo 200 torch sold in Australia which is Mapp gas plus oxygen and is only 100 degrees cooler then oxy acetelyne. Tesuco sell here.

[Slim R410a]

turbo 200 torch sold in Australia which is Mapp gas plus oxygen and is only 100 degrees cooler then oxy acetelyne. Tesuco sell here.


Is this the one?

http://techweld.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=619

Does this use the normal mapp gas bottles and is it available through any uk refrig. wholesalers?

[W.Miller]

Map gas is very convenient, I also have an oxy turbo kit, but it isnt that good. Flame always cuts out and on a windy day forget it.

[paul_h]

Is this the one?

http://techweld.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=619

Does this use the normal mapp gas bottles and is it available through any uk refrig. wholesalers?
looks good, I am really interested in it too.
I have the standard hand held single mapp gas torch and I don't like it at all. Only have it for roof tops, ceiling spaces and for when I'm up a ladder. It does an inferior job to oxy/acet by a long long long way. I wouldn't dream of using it for a compressor change or any piping over 5/8"

Even last week I was installing plumbing for my kitchen, and the little MAPP gas torch was a massive fail and I had to get out the oxy/acet. It was just a 1/2" tee piece and the MAPP would rather spend 10min trying to burn my house down and not heat the copper up, while the oxy/acet did the job in 40 seconds.

But I'd rather have more room in my vehicle, (would allow me to have another cylinder of refrigerant in there) and stop paying $30 a month cylinder rental to BOC if a small mapp/oxy setup with disposable cylinders was around and well priced and readily available.

[monkey spanners]

FSW do a oxy mapp set up that has a refillable oxy bottle and uses standard mapp bottles, theres no rental charge as you own the oxy bottle. Dave says its very good but i've not tried it yet. FSW and Climate do the smaller sets where both are disposable.

Called in my local calor place recently and found they do returnable mapp bottles, am thinking of giving them a try as the disposable ones seem quite wastfull.

Jon :)

[Jadeair]

I've had a turbo 200 for about 6weeks now.

I've used it to repair a cracked 1 1/8" pipe with no dramas and a compressor change.

I still use my mapp gas on most smaller jobs, the turbo 200 where I need extra heat in a hurry and drag my oxcy out of the office when I have larger install jobs.

I think the only problem I'll have with the turbo 200 is the oxcygen time only lasts 25min approx. and they cost $40 - $50 a bottle.
Cheers Nick..

[Tesla]

Hi Guys
Update - the company I work for is in the process of issuing each tech with the Turbo 200 and just keeping a few BOC welding sets ( like 1/5). I have had one for a year now. One good trick I found with sweatting off a larger pipes is to use a Mapgas as well as the Turbo 200 (with the biggest tip), where I work there has to be a fire century for safety which makes it easier.

[Slim R410a]

FSW do a oxy mapp set up that has a refillable oxy bottle and uses standard mapp bottles, theres no rental charge as you own the oxy bottle. Dave says its very good but i've not tried it yet. FSW and Climate do the smaller sets where both are disposable.

Is that the microflame/scorpion set that HRP also do?

I was about to order the turbo 90 yesterday from SRW until stumbled across the 200, looks alot better piece of kit for the extra £70 or so with the gauges etc also will only have to buy the oxygen refills as already stock mapp like everyone else. Just need to find a supplier.

[R11forreturn]

Just like Pooh, been in the business too many years(almost 30) and i have been brought up on oxy acetylene, and only use Mapp gas for drainage work, soft solder etc. Oxy gives a cleaner smaller, hotter, quicker flame and i certainly prefer it. As a manager i try and get all my engineers to do the same, but having just done my 2079Fgas i was quite surprised when i was asked to prove my brazing skill's with Mapp gas, the answer came back that if i could do it with Mapp gas then i'd be fine with Oxy.....
i would always have both available as an engineer, both have their uses..

[install monkey]

6722have u guys read the data sheet for mapp gas-be carefull-
i aint missing out on overtime to go to ur funerals!

[monkey spanners]

6722have u guys read the data sheet for mapp gas-be carefull-
i aint missing out on overtime to go to ur funerals!

Stuff we get now called Mapp Pro is actually propylene and not methyl thingy anymore. Might still be nasty though.

[paul_h]

mapp gas up to 5/8 then find this a great hand for doing pot changes and leaks (see pic) anything really big (and can park near) its the big boy bottles
The slow boat from Europe got here and my local wholesaler is selling the oxyturbo turboset 200 now. ~ au$320 though, + $60 for the cylinders.

But bought one today because I have a welding job on a 2 storey roof to do, good incentive and the one job will pay for it.

Still don't think much of a stand alone mapp gas turbo torch to be useful for anything except 1/4" 3/8" 1/2", copper to copper though. Worth having one for those times, but I don't even think about using it for anything larger, or brass/steel etc.

[centralklima]

you can use MAPP gas just for soft drawn tubes, but in hard drawn oxy-acetylene still effective.