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vipin
11-06-2008, 12:14 PM
hello everyone, i want to install a CA/MA store. and wants technical informations about them. welcome to all persons of that field.

B G Scott
11-06-2008, 02:07 PM
CA storage of top fruit is quite complicated, the store must be constructed from materials that are impervious to the ingress of oxygen, and that includes the floor.
The doors are always a problem as you will need two sets one gas doors and the other thermal doors.
You can scrub the air in the old style with an external chamber with an absorbant chemical placed within the chamber and the air from the store circulated through the scrubber.
The refrigeration plant needs to be well selected to handle the intitial pull down after loading and in an ideal world operate at reduced capacity during the storage period.
Bear in mind that the scubber is there to reduce excessive levels of C02, in the past the chemical most popular was Dry hydrated lime which can be loaded intothe scrubber in bags permeable to CO2.
What you must address is that the conditions for the store will vary with the type of Cultivar ie. Cox's Orange Pippin, Golden Delicious etc.
The storage temperature range varies with Cutivar from 0.5C to 4.5C in CA.
The best research on CA was done by Fidler & Mann I am not sure that the research is still in print but I have the info here if you need anymore assistance

Peter_1
11-06-2008, 09:14 PM
Nowadays doors are wit pressurised seals, not 2 doors.
Posted in the past some pictures here.

Install at least 2 independent cooling units/chamber in case one fails. You can't enter the room to repair something.
Never, never, never go in a CA room, you're dead within 15 seconds!! Don't even try to smell in it.

Make as much as possible electrical connections outside the room: if a fan fails you just can disconnect it, if a heater fails, disconnect it.
Drill a whole through the panels where all the electrical wires goes through. On the outside, install a connection box with a lit with a gasket over this whole. On the back of this box is a big whole for the wires. Add some silicone at the back of the box and set it over the wires.
Is this clear.

Install the TEV outside the room. Every you make whole must be leaktight. Use self-expanding PU for this.

The wall panels are placed on the concrete floor.

After installing, you need tor pressurise or vacuum the room to test for airleaks. There's a graph pressure/time with allowable leak which I posted already - I think.

For the srubber, use a good product like Van Amerongen in The Netherlands, a very reknown company, one of the best in the world.
http://www.van-amerongen.nl/

vipin
13-06-2008, 01:04 PM
CA storage of top fruit is quite complicated, the store must be constructed from materials that are impervious to the ingress of oxygen, and that includes the floor.
The doors are always a problem as you will need two sets one gas doors and the other thermal doors.
You can scrub the air in the old style with an external chamber with an absorbant chemical placed within the chamber and the air from the store circulated through the scrubber.
The refrigeration plant needs to be well selected to handle the intitial pull down after loading and in an ideal world operate at reduced capacity during the storage period.
Bear in mind that the scubber is there to reduce excessive levels of C02, in the past the chemical most popular was Dry hydrated lime which can be loaded intothe scrubber in bags permeable to CO2.
What you must address is that the conditions for the store will vary with the type of Cultivar ie. Cox's Orange Pippin, Golden Delicious etc.
The storage temperature range varies with Cutivar from 0.5C to 4.5C in CA.
The best research on CA was done by Fidler & Mann I am not sure that the research is still in print but I have the info here if you need anymore assistance
thanks , for providing me the information,keep in tuch, with regards, vipin.

CHilly1
17-06-2008, 12:39 PM
Repaired and set up a few barns in MAine. Old style grassroots tech. Floors were sealed concrete, CO scrubing by H2o Flooding. Cribbing of 4 feet to first Bin with 3 feet of water, Barn temp dependant on Sugar content 4.5 to 5.5 % Oxy nitrogen purge with 8 daily monitoring and manual OXY sat measurments Cooper Farms Guy that ran it was Chris Cooper, South paris Maine maybe contact him for his take on it. The system was set up by a Company In lewiston Maine using 15 and 20 Ton Carriers the older ORiginal system was R12 with Schanaki Twin cyl compressor with York Water defrost evap, the water in the bottom of the barn was used to defrost the evaps He ran the barns at 26 to 30 F for the early mac apples but I really only touched on his knoledge of storage and control.
The newer barns ran Carrier R22 Condensers using carylyle 25 hp with Unloaders for capacity control, and electric defrost, the defrost using this method caused some thermal death near the top of the barns, He had doors of creasote soaked wood sealed with Tar on the old barns newer barns were standars gasketed doors. Pull down with barn unsealed and sealed after cooling. So Too much CO Purge with Nitrogen OXY low add Change out water if CO level unstable this is all I got.
you need Scott air packs to do repairs.