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hoangdung12
04-06-2008, 07:14 AM
Dear Friends,
Regarding Frascold compressor, they recommend to use POE oil for their compressor in any refrigeration application. But in R22 application, can we exchange POE oil to Mineral oil?If there is mixed oil between POE&M Oil in refrigeration system, how can we resold this problem perfect?
Can any body help me to have some correct method.
Thanks for your support.

p/s: If you can, pls send email to me
my email address : hoangdung12@yahoo.com

Thermatech
04-06-2008, 08:48 AM
Use an instument called a refractrometer.

1/ take a reading of new poe oil.
2/ take a reading of new mineral oil.
3/ take a reading of the oil mixture you have in the refrigerant system.
4/ based on the data calculate the % mix.
5/ If the oil mix is unaceptable then drain the oil from compressor & recharge new oil.
6/ After the system has run for a day or two repeat the process untill the oil mixture is acceptable.

We did alot of this when retrofitting R407c refrigerant into R22 systems some years ago. So we were changing mineral oil to poe synthetic oil.
We had to get the mix below 5% old mineral oil & over 95% new poe oil which often required 3 oil changes.

winfred.dela
04-06-2008, 10:09 AM
Regarding Frascold compressor, they recommend to use POE oil for their compressor in any refrigeration application.

But in R22 application, can we exchange POE oil to Mineral oil?


I would suggest you also verify with Frascold if the compressor model you have is suitable with mineral oil.

I assume you want to save on the oil cost.
It may not be a savings especially if something happens during the warranty period.


Regards :)

hoangdung12
04-06-2008, 10:58 AM
Thanks for your feedback.
we had big mistakes when we carry on oil additional to Frascol compressor which it is using POE oil. And now there are a lot of MO in the System.Our system operate abnormal. Sometime it loose oil pressure.
If I drain out old oil, clean system and recharge new refrigerant and new MO then what happen?
Although Fascold Manufacture can use MO in R22 application but they are required high condition .

winfred.dela
04-06-2008, 12:31 PM
we had big mistakes when we carry on oil additional to Frascol compressor which it is using POE oil. And now there are a lot of MO in the System. Our system operate abnormal. Sometime it loose oil pressure.
If I drain out old oil, clean system and recharge new refrigerant and new MO then what happen?
Although Fascold Manufacture can use MO in R22 application but they are required high condition .

Had same problem years ago with copeland compressor. Oil pressure is abnormal because there are a lot of metal fillings in the oil suction strainer.

I suggest you clean the compressor oil sump and oil pump strainer, replace the existing oil (POE+MO) with the original charge (POE). Keep on monitoring the pressure and cleaning the strainer until the oil pressure comes back to normal.

hoangdung12
05-06-2008, 04:02 AM
Thanks friend. I have plan to replace old oil and charge new refrigerant. However I still concern uncleansed oil which they are hang over inside system. Maybe I need replace oil more. Of course we need clean oil pump and oil strainer. Thanks for your opinion.

icecube51
08-06-2008, 12:35 PM
if you are talking about semi- or open compressors you have to change the barings ,fittings and sealers to.;)

the will be soaked whit the old oil,and not be happy whit the new.the will get brocken.

Ice

NoNickName
09-06-2008, 04:20 PM
I am from Frascold.
POE oil is compatible with HCFC and HFC.
MO is only compatible with HCFC.

POE oil is not compatible with MO and any mixture or cokktail will result in unexpected results.
If POE came in touch with MO, an extensive clean out must be performed. Please note that POE is a good solvent for MO starch and wax

winfred.dela
09-06-2008, 05:50 PM
POE oil is not compatible with MO and any mixture or cokktail will result in unexpected results.
If POE came in touch with MO, an extensive clean out must be performed.


Thanks NoNickname for the advice.

Does this mean that in cases like this, the refrigerant needs to be recover/remove from system;
and refrigeration system thoroughly flush and clean to remove any traces of the POE/MO?

Regards,

WASSIMMOA
09-06-2008, 09:22 PM
POE oil is compatible with HCFC and HFC.it mean that you can imploy R22 with POE oil without changing it to MO.
I DID imploy R22 ON new DORIN compressor charged whith POE oil.

NoNickName
10-06-2008, 06:55 AM
Yes POE is compatible with R22

hoangdung12
20-08-2008, 04:32 AM
Dear Friends,
I just bought Frascold-semi hermatic compressor with model W60-206Y and installed it in my ice flake maker system.System operated normal about 20h(10h per time). After that I turned off system because power supply was too low(345AC). Then I operated it again after stable power supply. However the compressor only ran about 5 minutes then issued strange noise inside compressor and too vibration. I turned off system and took over compressor to inspect it. The 8th piston is blocked inside cylinder therefore made broken piston pin... (System always have enough oil for operation.) Could you please explain me what happen and how to have countermeasure for this problem?
You can send email direct to me by email address:
hoangdung12@hotmail.com.
Thanks for your support and looking forward

NoNickName
24-08-2008, 06:38 AM
hoang dung, you already contacted our Frascold's customer care for assistance. Thanks for that, although curiously enough you forgot to mention the voltage was low at the time the compressor was stopped.
We are already taking care of the matter.

NoNickName
28-08-2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks NoNickname for the advice.

Does this mean that in cases like this, the refrigerant needs to be recover/remove from system;
and refrigeration system thoroughly flush and clean to remove any traces of the POE/MO?

Regards,

Yes, it's a good idea

hoangdung12
24-09-2008, 10:55 AM
thanks for your instruction.

hendry
26-09-2008, 03:04 AM
hi ho-ang-dung,

i think you might got what u need so far.

but, i think you should not use POE oil since you are having R22.

POE oil is hygroscopic. MO is not.

do a flushing of the system with few oil change totally. run a oil analysis on the content.

i've done few flushing jobs for gas companies. not easy but satisfying ...;)

monkey spanners
26-09-2008, 05:32 PM
Nothing wrong with running POE with R22.

Jon

Grizzly
26-09-2008, 06:31 PM
Nothing wrong with running POE with R22.

Jon

Absolutly correct Jon.

But if the system has previously had Mineral Oil in it?
Then it's not adviseable.
As the original post implies "Replace POE to Mineral oil".
Grizzly
For those interested. Please see below....


F A Qs Mixing of Oils
Mineral Oils:
Alkyl Benzenes:

In this regard you may regard Mineral & Alkyl Benzene’s as ‘Sugar’ and Polyolester’s
as ‘Salt’. Mixing any of the same broad type will not effect the overall performance,
although the resultant viscosity will charge proportional to the mix ratio. It is
important is not to mix Mineral with Polyolester unless using with traditional HCFC
refrigerants or blends of these gases. Do not use Mineral on any system using R134a
or a derivative.
These are simple refined products made direct from crude oil. Most
mineral oils utilised in refrigeration are Napthenic type oils. Viscosities
are normally rated at 32; 46 & 68 for use on most systems from -
400C to + 150C. Thinner viscosities are also available for very low
temperature systems.
These are synthetically produced oil with very similar characteristics
to mineral oils, however they are claimed to have improved lubricative
qualities.

Polyolester Oils: These are fully synthetic oils produced in a totally different manner to
synthetic Mineral oils. These are the commonest lubricants for HFC
based gases. These oils use the same ISO grading system as Mineral
/ AB types. however they tend to be more viscosity stable and may
offer improved lubricative qualities to the compressor in extreme
situations.

Sunisco
Texaco
Shell
Castrol
Mobil
Texaco
Shell
Mobil
Esso
ROLT 46 (ISO 46 is a common mid-grade)
SD (this is actually a mixture of mineral and AlkylBenzene)
Arctic SHC424 (ISO 46)
Zerice S46; S68; S100
3GS (ISO 32); 4GS (ISO 68): 5 GS (ISO 100)
Capella WF (I) 32; 68
Clavus 32; 46; 68
Icematic 266 (ISO 32); 299 (ISO 68)
155 (ISO 32); 300 (ISO 68)

Common Grades of Mineral Oil...
Common Grades are...

ICI
Mobile
Castrol
Emkarate
EAL Arctic
Icematic
RL32s
22; 32; 46; 68 (EAL - Environmental Awareness Lubricant)

ThermaCom do not recommend Arctic 22 for use
with metalled bearings.
SW 32; 68; 100
Typical Grades are .....

nh3wizard
26-09-2008, 08:21 PM
:off topic:I see someone is back from a religious "Holiday" well it was good while it lasted:mad:

Grizzly
26-09-2008, 09:13 PM
:off topic:I see someone is back from a religious "Holiday" well it was good while it lasted:mad:

May I just say "How well your Humour travels", nh3wizard.
Grizzly

nevgee
27-09-2008, 11:41 PM
Absolutly correct Jon.

For those interested. Please see below....



In this regard you may regard Mineral & Alkyl Benzene’s as ‘Sugar’ and Polyolester’s
as ‘Salt’. Mixing any of the same broad type will not effect the overall performance,
although the resultant viscosity will charge proportional to the mix ratio. It is
important is not to mix Mineral with Polyolester unless using with traditional HCFC
refrigerants or blends of these gases. Do not use Mineral on any system using R134a
or a derivative.



Interesting to see the quote suggests MO and POE could be ok so long as the refrigerant is HCFC. Assuming this is because HCFC is a solvent for both oil types.
However, "if it shouldn't be in there then don't let it be in there" Cleanliness with refrigeration systems is of course paramount in all cases. So it's always good practice to keep the system as "pure" practically possible.

hendry
29-09-2008, 02:09 AM
:off topic:I see someone is back from a religious "Holiday" well it was good while it lasted:mad:

:p
the holidays starts only this week.;)