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james.waite
30-05-2008, 08:09 PM
Hi
Just wondering if anyone has specified or worked on Star's indigochiller chiller. A customer is asking to review them for energy saving on a new installation. Not sure if they are a bit of an unknown quantity?? I have heard they are used in Australia by McQuay.

Any help would be greatly received????:confused:

nike123
30-05-2008, 10:40 PM
Hi
Just wondering if anyone has specified or worked on Star's indigochiller chiller. A customer is asking to review them for energy saving on a new installation. Not sure if they are a bit of an unknown quantity?? I have heard they are used in Australia by McQuay.

Any help would be greatly received????:confused:
I could only tell you, that same concept is already in Danfoss Turbocor compressor.
http://tinyurl.com/3q3qdt

botrous
30-05-2008, 11:07 PM
I could only tell you, that same concept is already in Danfoss Turbocor compressor.
http://tinyurl.com/3q3qdt

As a matter of fact you can order litreture from this site and you will get it, i did order the dvd and got it , that was about 2 years ago.

Plank!
18-06-2008, 08:26 PM
I could only tell you, that same concept is already in Danfoss Turbocor compressor.
http://tinyurl.com/3q3qdt

Star's indigo chillers use danfoss turbocor compressors.

I've worked on many of them and am very happy with the performance and stability.

I don't sell them, just maintain them.

May i suggest you contact star, I don't know if there are any installations near you (or your client) but we certainly have a large number of them in the south east regions. I know one of the clients recently provided some intresting information about energy consumption for 2 500KW chillers, one a standard packaged screw chiller (I forget the make), the other a Star Indigo chiller - both units do simillar duty but the difference in energy use is staggering.
I don't have the figures to hand and won't try to guess them, if i can get the actual numbers they'll be posted here.


From a maintenance point of view they are the best thing EVER. No oil, so no filter/oil changes, only real maintenance is replaceing the DC supply caps every 4 or 5 years. The comps have only 2 major moving parts, a couple of solenoid valves and a bunch of electronics so virtually nothing to break :D
So far, in 2 years of working with them I've only had to use tools on the comps to fit wiring/protection upgrades.

I've not seen much go wrong with the chillers either, pretty much all the real work i've done on them was to replace a defective overload on a condensor fan and replace lamps in the bulkhead fitting beside the compressors.
Mostly all i ever need to do is clean off the condensor coils :confused:

james.waite
19-06-2008, 02:22 PM
Thats perfect. Just what I needed. Would be great if you did come by the data but thanks for the input!!!

GreenFly
19-06-2008, 05:25 PM
I live and work in London and am actively involved in the upgrading from O.D.S refrigerants to more environmental friendly refrigerants. The turbo core compressor is an amazing compressor, but the compressor with out its electronics is useless. The product that i sell is Geoclima and they have designed a bespoke control system for the compressor's that makes them really efficient. I have yet to see one of the turbo core units fail.

Plank!
19-06-2008, 07:55 PM
I live and work in London and am actively involved in the upgrading from O.D.S refrigerants to more environmental friendly refrigerants. The turbo core compressor is an amazing compressor, but the compressor with out its electronics is useless. The product that i sell is Geoclima and they have designed a bespoke control system for the compressor's that makes them really efficient. I have yet to see one of the turbo core units fail.


:confused: Are you talking about the same thing? :confused:

TURBOCOR compressors have some very advanced integrated electronics, sophisticated enough to run a chiller from its own inbuilt controllers.

I don't see how any external electronics can run the turbocor better than the built in systems.
This little beast checks its bearing position and calculates stall/choke points for the rotor 1000 times every second, far faster than the data bus can support external control.
Yes the compressor is useless without its electronics, but you miss the whole point, the electronics ARE the compressor.

If the compressors built in chiller controls are not required all thats needed is a run signal and a 0 - 100% proportional signal for compressors power output. It pretty much controls itself from there.

Can you explain how your electronics control the comp different from anyone else?

Regards
Steve

Chiller Rob
21-08-2008, 05:52 AM
:confused: Are you talking about the same thing? :confused:

TURBOCOR compressors have some very advanced integrated electronics, sophisticated enough to run a chiller from its own inbuilt controllers.

I don't see how any external electronics can run the turbocor better than the built in systems.
This little beast checks its bearing position and calculates stall/choke points for the rotor 1000 times every second, far faster than the data bus can support external control.
Yes the compressor is useless without its electronics, but you miss the whole point, the electronics ARE the compressor.

If the compressors built in chiller controls are not required all thats needed is a run signal and a 0 - 100% proportional signal for compressors power output. It pretty much controls itself from there.

Can you explain how your electronics control the comp different from anyone else?

Regards
Steve


first time post on this site... i am glad to see that others are banging around idea's with this compressor...

i have most of my turbocor experience on retrofit applications...

we have retrofited:
single compressor circuits...
multiple compressors circuits with common evap...
multiple compressors with multiple evaps (same circuit)...
(all jobs usually include exv converstions)
flooded shell centrifugal compressors with multiple turbocor compressors...
installed fair amount of the smardt chillers, most receintly one of the largest in north america 550 ton 5 compressor chiller...

all of my experience is with water cooled equipment... have not had the guts to go air cooled...

i have a comment about the onboard electronics...

although it may seem to be advanced there are some basic control features that are lacking (in chiller mode) such as start diff above setpoint to bring the unit on, stop diff setpoint under setpoint to shut the compressor off. and there are other things that could use some improvement...

yes this could be achieved with the 0-10vdc AI but a master control should be used unless you have a stable load and such control is not needed.

the tricky part is when you start playing with multiple compressors on a common circuit and staging them on line at a time when you dont have to sacrifice the supply water temp when loading to match compression ratios on stage up...

also this effects how you are controlling the expandtion devices as this change can be drastic and throw you into a system hunt...

are any of you envolved in the retrofit market or is package equipment commonplace?

i discuss these things with other contractors in the US but there are not alot of people doing this type of work...

lastly i picked up some where that the bearing check was 120 times each revolution... that is some pretty quick thinkin...

thanks...
Rob

Tesla
21-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Yes Rob
I agree with you, chiller control is lacking. In aus we use power pak turbo cor chillers. I worked for a company last year that recorded chiller COP = 18! and have a retrofit on air cooled r22 york chiller. But as a controls tech recently a building was fitted with 2 chillers and due to no friction load it is more efficient to run both chillers at around 67% than to have 1 at 100% and the other at 34%. Also for better control of stage up/down of multiple chillers. As I have heard a limitting factor of these chillers is fixed water flow as opposed to varied. Soon someone will design and build a more efficient emf bearing chiller, and if I can think of how I know there must be a 1000 others. - Like Schouberger, Tesla, Hutchison patents and ultrasonics. Got you thinking yet?

Chiller Rob
21-08-2008, 01:30 PM
is power pax using the kiltech control panel?

this panel communicates with the turbocor via modbus and can very effectivly run 6 compressors...

i agree... i have multiple compressors running at 30- 60% all day long...

BrochIce
21-08-2008, 04:27 PM
Star manufactures Indigo chillers in Scotland type star refrigeration into your internet browser

jittypop
30-08-2008, 04:06 AM
Try the aircooled there alot of fun too there just a little less efficient but run well will be putting in a 160 aircooled remote condensor turbocor chiller soon.

james.waite
23-09-2008, 01:45 PM
Thanks for all your input. Can't wait to make people wake up and except new ideas. People are very slow to except change in uk design. Been trying to spec one for ages.. keep having to go back to standard.

multisync
23-09-2008, 05:52 PM
Thanks for all your input. Can't wait to make people wake up and except new ideas. People are very slow to except change in uk design. Been trying to spec one for ages.. keep having to go back to standard.

A lot of the chiller manufacturers are using these these days, Airedale Coolmotion and a few others.

I don't see why you keep going back to std -is it a cost issue?

Multisync
London