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mbeychok
04-04-2001, 08:18 PM
Response to question by subzero*psia:

There is nothing new about the "hydrocarbon refrigerants" and they have been used in large industrial applications for many decades (e.g., in petroleum refineries, petrochemical plants, etc.).

The trade-named hydrocarbon refrigerants are:
-- Care 10 which is isobutane
-- Care 40 which is propane
-- Care 30 which is a blend of propane and isobutane
-- Care 50 which is a blend of ethane and propane

The R-numbered hydrocarbon refrigerants are:
-- R170 which is ethane
-- R290 which is propane (same as Care 40)
-- R600a which is isobutane (same as Care 10)
-- R600 which is normal butane
-- R601a which is isopentane
-- R601 which is normal pentane

If you go to the website of the Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Industry Board (ACRIB) located at http://www.acrib.org.uk, you can download (in the Acrobat PDF format) "Guidelines For The Use Of Hydrocarbon Refrigerants In Static Refrigeration And Air Conditioning Systems" ... which contains some of the physical properties of the various hydrocarbon refrigerants as well as other useful information regarding their use.

But since they are all very common and well-known hydrocarbons, you can find all the physical property and thermodynamic information you want in standard reference texts such as "Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook" and the "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics". They are both readily available in the library of any good university.

Keep in mind that the temperature versus vapor pressure curves of ethane, propane and isobutane are very different. Thus, when a refrigeration system is designed to use a specific blend of propane and isobutane (such as Core 30), then any change in the blend proportions will result in different system temperatures and/or pressures than were intended by the original design. The same is true for blends of ethane and propane (such as Core 50).

Milton Beychok
(Visit me at http://www.air-dispersion.com)

[Edited by WebMaster on 07-04-2001 at 02:11 AM]

Ari Pasek
22-04-2002, 04:23 PM
I am from Indonesia. Hydrocarbon is begening to popular n Indonesia. However, their application are only for small appliance.
Since the electricity cost become higher, many superstore and building owner try to get some new efficient system. Hydrocarbon is promising bbut no famous HVAC producer will allow the use of hydrocarbon in their machine, other wise they will terminate the waranty system.
Are they any HVAC system especially in UK that can be used. HVAC system at 12000 TR is urgently need to repace the R-11 system.

Regards,

Ari D. Pasek


Originally posted by mbeychok
Response to question by subzero*psia:

There is nothing new about the "hydrocarbon refrigerants" and they have been used in large industrial applications for many decades (e.g., in petroleum refineries, petrochemical plants, etc.).

The trade-named hydrocarbon refrigerants are:
-- Care 10 which is isobutane
-- Care 40 which is propane
-- Care 30 which is a blend of propane and isobutane
-- Care 50 which is a blend of ethane and propane

The R-numbered hydrocarbon refrigerants are:
-- R170 which is ethane
-- R290 which is propane (same as Care 40)
-- R600a which is isobutane (same as Care 10)
-- R600 which is normal butane
-- R601a which is isopentane
-- R601 which is normal pentane

If you go to the website of the Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Industry Board (ACRIB) located at http://www.acrib.org.uk, you can download (in the Acrobat PDF format) "Guidelines For The Use Of Hydrocarbon Refrigerants In Static Refrigeration And Air Conditioning Systems" ... which contains some of the physical properties of the various hydrocarbon refrigerants as well as other useful information regarding their use.

But since they are all very common and well-known hydrocarbons, you can find all the physical property and thermodynamic information you want in standard reference texts such as "Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook" and the "Handbook of Chemistry and Physics". They are both readily available in the library of any good university.

Keep in mind that the temperature versus vapor pressure curves of ethane, propane and isobutane are very different. Thus, when a refrigeration system is designed to use a specific blend of propane and isobutane (such as Core 30), then any change in the blend proportions will result in different system temperatures and/or pressures than were intended by the original design. The same is true for blends of ethane and propane (such as Core 50).

Milton Beychok
(Visit me at http://www.air-dispersion.com)

[Edited by WebMaster on 07-04-2001 at 02:11 AM]

zolar1
07-07-2002, 07:17 AM
Here is a site claiming HC's as a replacement for R134a & R12 systems.

http://www.*****-r12-replacements.com/product.htm

Also, what the heck is R95?????

Lastly, I can't seem to recall the conversion from 85 deg C to deg F....sigh

Prof Sporlan
07-07-2002, 09:57 PM
Also, what the heck is R95?????

SUVA 95 is R-508B, which is DuPont's HFC substitute for R-13 and R-503. "R95", however, might be something else altogether.


Lastly, I can't seem to recall the conversion from 85 deg C to deg F....sigh

F = 1.8 * C + 32, so:

1.8 * 85C + 32 = 185F

Andy
08-07-2002, 07:38 PM
Hi, Ari.
If you are willing to consider an explosive mixture such as a hydrocarbon, why not consider the use of NH3. It is a proven refrigerant, effecient, cheap and much less danagerous than a hydrocarbon. The company I work for builds low charge systems suitable for this very aplication. You can take a look at our case studies on our web site.
www.star-ref.co.uk
Regards. Andy.

Ari Pasek
11-07-2002, 04:05 PM
Thanks for the info
I saw in Greenpeace's video that one of the Sainsbury Supermarket in UK has installed HC chillers is that true?

Andy
23-07-2002, 09:24 PM
Hi,
Anyone out there worked on a HC system yet, I feel the urge to do so, probably just for the hell of it.
Regards. Andy

zolar1
05-08-2002, 04:46 AM
Here is a link for more information about hydrocarbon refrigerants.

http://ctan.unsw.edu.au/pub/archive/HC/HC.html

ralph feria
02-11-2002, 12:48 PM
DEAR MILTON,
WE ARE DESIGNING SMALL CHILLERS (3 TO5 TON) TO USE R290. WOULD YOU CONSIDER BEING A CONSULTANT ON THE PROJECT?

BEST REGARDS,

RALPH FERIA, PRESIDENT

MULTIAQUA INC.

954 -5581196 FLORIDA, USA

zolar1
04-12-2002, 08:35 AM
From what I read about R290, it works very much the same way as R22.

DaBit
04-12-2002, 11:38 AM
From what I have read and researched, the R290 PT curve matches the R22 curve pretty well. It can be used as a direct replacement for R22, but COP and capacity will be 5-10% lower in those circumstances. Adding a suction gas<-> liquid line heat exchanger improves both COP and efficiency. COP will rise to R22 levels or even exceed it, capacity stays a bit lower, but only a few percents.

Problems with R290 are it's flammability and it's tendency to thin out oil.

Experimentation shows that when converting captube R22 systems to R290, the captube must be lengthened with 16% to obtain the same pressure drop.

R600a (isobutane) is widely used here in Europe in household refrigerators and airconditioners. The low pressures and pressure losses due to piping allow for thinner piping, and the refrigerant itself seems pretty efficient.

zolar1
05-12-2002, 03:41 AM
But where can I get small quantities of R290 and R600a?

I found one place, but they said I had to buy a palette full.

jg/oz
31-12-2002, 06:38 AM
friends,
those interested in alternative technologies in refrigeration have a loo at http://www.greenchill.org
and go into documents and start reading

jg/oz:eek:

Elliza
01-09-2006, 05:11 AM
does anyone can help me?
rigth now i have a project n that was about hydrocarbon refrigerants analysis, n i need to know what various n characteristic from hydrocarbon it self? i mean what the best kind of hydrocarbon u can suggest for me, and what the effect if i used it the one of that various? because i'm new one with this specious, thanks

NoNickName
01-09-2006, 07:15 AM
does anyone can help me?

Of course, wow.



rigth now i have a project n that was about hydrocarbon refrigerants analysis, n i need to know what various n characteristic from hydrocarbon it self?

If the download section of this forum you will find refprop, which is a tool for calculation refrigerant properties. It's free and useful.



i mean what the best kind of hydrocarbon u can suggest for me, and what the effect if i used it the one of that various? because i'm new one with this specious, thanks

I analysed the curves of the widely available, and decided to go with R290 myself, but of course YMMV.

US Iceman
01-09-2006, 10:03 PM
Hi Elliza,

Welcome to the RE forums.

Let start with saying; refrigerants are refrigerants. Ammonia has different properties from propane, and CO2 is different than ethane.

The primary task with evaluating refrigerants is safety. Of course the hydrocarbons are flammable and have a risk of explosion if not designed properly. But these issues can be solved.

The next task is to use a refrigerant that has useful properties. At very low temperatures, ethane has a high vapor pressure so this may work for low temperature applications only.

Propane is good refrigerant for almost anything greater than -40C.

It all boils down to (sorry for the pun) the refrigerant properties at the operating conditions. Can you get a low required mass and volume flow for the required cooling capacity? Does the refrigerant exhibit pressures that are suitable for the intended operating conditions?

At least this is how I would approach the task of evaluating refrigerants.