Denco Close Control Units

[Freecool]

Any body out there had problems with lack of water alarm on the humidifiers for the new denco units. Denco are now using Carel humidifiers instead of nordmann and are a load of ****. Have checked water conductivity level,fitted new drain manefold and solenoid. removed water sensor and cleaned, checked water pressure and supply, checked water inlet solenoid,changed cylinder. Problem still an ongoing now and then.

Freecool

[coolments]

Hi there, just a few pointers to help, is there a water softener or reverse osmosis unit installed to the in coming water mains on your site as this might cause a problem, also have you tried putting a teaspoon of salt into vapac cylinder to kick it into life. these things can be such a pain, how did you check the water conductivity level, is it a resistance type steam producer and was it drawing currect ampage. can you provide more details in order to help further.

[Freecool]

Hi Coolments, You can check the the conductivety level via the screen this is this is detected via the water inlet sensor. With these new units you can fit an Low, medium or high conductivyty cylinders. What appears to happen is it fills, boils up and draws current up 3.5 amps then drains down
then it want refill then we have Lack of water.You power off unit fault clears fills up and works but the same thing happens.I have the right type of cylinder for the level of water conductivity.This is not an isolated case as we have had problems with other new Denco units.We have an fitted inlet water ironisation filter with removable filter, this fault was there before.Have contacted Denco many a time regarding this getting now where.
Even had Denco out to one site. Ok for a couple of days then back to square one.

[Brian_UK]

You say that it wants to refill but faults with lack of water.

Is water actually entering the cylinder ?

If yes, is it leaving by a stuck open drain?

If no, is there a problem with the inlet water solenoid valve?

I know that you have probably answered these in your first post but I'm just checking...

[edit] There isn't something silly like a non-copper (ie plastic or rubber) pipe section anywhere that is collapsing when it gets warm/hot?

[billywizz]

Had similar problems on another make of close control unit. On start up kettle worked fine but then appeared to drain down, what was actually happening was the pressure from the steam was forcing the water back up the fill hose into the drain tundish. Cure was making sure no traps in delivery tube, just an idea.

[squiggle]

if the bottle refills but shows lack of water i'd suggest checking the front displays current reading and comparing it against an amprobe reading of all bottle phases. if there's a disparity try changing the current toroid/transformer

[Freecool]

Thanks for all your response, have checked and removed water inlet and drain valves. when I go back to site
will try all your suggestions.

Regards
Freecool

[coolments]

Hi Freecool, been off for a while but looking back there is some good advice coming through any way.

As squiggle says, if the bottle is refilling with water and registering lack of it, it does draw attention to seeing if the actual draw current is the same as what it is reading although if the unit works ok when reset then i would tend to think this part of the system is ok
Check fill speed of the water if it is to slow it may be looking for current draw before it actually fills up, there are many hidden settings with regards to flushing and refilling, time settings in between etc, ask your denco supplier for them and check them, i have a great PDF file for the humdifiers on stulz kit, it may have the same humidifier in Denco, if not still some good info on the principles involved but you will have to PM me with your email address in order for me to send it as it is 1mb so cant post it.

With regards to billy's post, the delivery of the steam should be on a gradual vertical climb all the way to discharge point which is normally a sparge pipe, this is so any steam that gets condensed back to water can run down back into the bottle or 't' off to a drain point, any dips or flat areas on the steam discharge pipe will cause you problems so check for them also.

Good luck.

[Denco Technical]

Hi chaps, sorry i have just joined and seen this thread.

I am the tech support manager for GEA Denco.

First of all lack of water alarm is simply lack of water...

So you can have the following issues:

The fill valve is restricted or the pressure is to low

Or the drain valve is passing

So the fill valve: when the hum bottle asked to fill it times 8 Min's this is enough time to allow the level to reach the probe inside the bottle, if it does not reach this in a set time then it displays the alarm.
To test this you will need to fill the hum bottle and time it it should reach the probe in 4-5 Min's max.

You also need to be careful that the sensor inside the bottle is not spent, we recommend changing these bottles in good water area twice a year. in bad water area they may need to be changed every 2 months!

Drain Valve: If the drain valve is passing while the solenoid is shut then the level drops and the controller picks up a lack of water alarm.

Best way to test this is to fill the bottle switch off the machine (main isolator) and mark the water level in the bottle. after half a hour this should not move, if it does then the drain is passing.

I would also ask you to check the software version (level 1) if you have a version below V10.0 the i would recommend contacting me to arrange a software upgrade.

[Denco Technical]

If you guys want to contact me i am on 01432 277277 and ask for Rob in Technical

Cheers

[Heronhill]

Any body out there had problems with lack of water alarm on the humidifiers for the new denco units. Denco are now using Carel humidifiers instead of nordmann and are a load of ****. Have checked water conductivity level,fitted new drain manefold and solenoid. removed water sensor and cleaned, checked water pressure and supply, checked water inlet solenoid,changed cylinder. Problem still an ongoing now and then.

Freecool
Heronhill are the main importers of Nordmann humidifiers so if you needed any spares call them on 01823 665660 or visit their website heronhill.co.uk

[Grizzly]

Hi Freecool.
I don't know if it is relevant but on the few occasions that I have heard of "Conductivity / Water level issues with humidifiers.
The Domestic water supply has played a big part.
IE. If you get very high quality soft water with little or no dissolved solids in it.
The conductivity levels are poor and the software thinks that there is little or no water in the humidifier.
Apparently areas like Swansea (Soft Welsh Water) suffer greatly.

I believe the trick is to add salt to the first few operations of the humidifier.

Maybe someone else can explain better but the above is how i remember a previous conversation.

Or it may be irrelevant to your dilemma?
All the best Grizzly.

[Denco Technical]

Hi chaps, sorry i have just joined and seen this thread.

I am the tech support manager for GEA Denco.

First of all lack of water alarm is simply lack of water...

So you can have the following issues:

The fill valve is restricted or the pressure is to low

Or the drain valve is passing

So the fill valve: when the hum bottle asked to fill it times 8 Min's this is enough time to allow the level to reach the probe inside the bottle, if it does not reach this in a set time then it displays the alarm.
To test this you will need to fill the hum bottle and time it it should reach the probe in 4-5 Min's max.

You also need to be careful that the sensor inside the bottle is not spent, we recommend changing these bottles in good water area twice a year. in bad water area they may need to be changed every 2 months!

Drain Valve: If the drain valve is passing while the solenoid is shut then the level drops and the controller picks up a lack of water alarm.

Best way to test this is to fill the bottle switch off the machine (main isolator) and mark the water level in the bottle. after half a hour this should not move, if it does then the drain is passing.

I would also ask you to check the software version (level 1) if you have a version below V10.0 the i would recommend contacting me to arrange a software upgrade.

Before you start changing bottles can you give me a nod that you have checked the following.

Also we supply replacement bottles.