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hhchvac@verizon
10-05-2008, 06:24 AM
need help-service call on a 10-ton York split system. Has a Copeland "Discus" that blew refrigerant seal around crankcase heater. Lost complete charge and quite a bit of oil. Crankcase heater is fractured in two. Is this repairable with new heater and seal? Advise from supply house tells me new compressor. Major bucks! Seems to me , it should be repairable?

Grizzly
10-05-2008, 11:11 AM
need help-service call on a 10-ton York split system. Has a Copeland "Discus" that blew refrigerant seal around crankcase heater. Lost complete charge and quite a bit of oil. Crankcase heater is fractured in two. Is this repairable with new heater and seal? Advise from supply house tells me new compressor. Major bucks! Seems to me , it should be repairable?

Hi hhchvac
Logically if it is just the Crankcase heater and it's seal that is damaged.
Then it should be just a simple case of replacement!
Only you can make that call as "we cannot see the extent of the damage.
If you are still unsure try posting a picture of the damage.
So the "team can decide!
Cheers Grizzly.

taz24
10-05-2008, 12:28 PM
I agree with the grizzly one.
If the heater has failed and the refrigerant and oil have been lost because of that, then yes replace the heater, oil, dryers and vac the thing dry,add refrigerant and use like normal.
If there is somthing wrong with the comp that caused the heater to fail, well that is a different ball game.
Check the oil filter for signs of blockage or steel filings.
If all is well hopfully the lp switch and oil protection switch will have saved the comp from serious damage.

Cheers taz.

Grizzly
10-05-2008, 12:44 PM
I agree with the grizzly one.
If the heater has failed and the refrigerant and oil have been lost because of that, then yes replace the heater, oil, dryers and vac the thing dry,add refrigerant and use like normal.
If there is somthing wrong with the comp that caused the heater to fail, well that is a different ball game.
Check the oil filter for signs of blockage or steel filings.
If all is well hopfully the lp switch and oil protection switch will have saved the comp from serious damage.

Cheers taz.

Good points taz.
hhchvac.
If it's of any help?
If you let me know the Model no of the Comp.
I can send you a parts list pdf if you wish?
Cheers Grizzly

powell
10-05-2008, 05:36 PM
need help-service call on a 10-ton York split system. Has a Copeland "Discus" that blew refrigerant seal around crankcase heater. Lost complete charge and quite a bit of oil. Crankcase heater is fractured in two. Is this repairable with new heater and seal? Advise from supply house tells me new compressor. Major bucks! Seems to me , it should be repairable?
hhchvac,

I'm guessing you have a Copeland 3D series, maybe a 3DB3-100E. These compressors, since about 2002 have used a "heater well" type CCHTR. You can screw the well into the threaded hole and then insert the CCHTR. This design lets you change the heater without draining the oil. The older style was an immersion type heater which could be changed but the oil would drain. Either way, both can be repaired.

I can't imagine why the supply house would tell you to change the compressor unless there is damage to the cast iron body where the threads are located or there is internal damage to the compressor due to lack of lubrication. The lube oil control should have shut the unit down and prevented internal damage.

List the model number of the compressor and the voltage of the CCHTR and we can get you the Copeland part numbers you need to change out the CCHTR.

regards........Powell

US Iceman
10-05-2008, 06:08 PM
Advise from supply house tells me new compressor.


Why did they give you this advice? Change the compressor; based on what? The need to sell a compressor?

It all depends on the condition of the compressor. I would advise the owner of the circumstances, provide him/her with the possible options and let them make up their mind what they want to do.

If you install a new oil heater, recharge the crankcase and system... then run the system and check the oil pressure and the oil safety switch. If everything checks out OK you should be OK. But... let the owner know what is going on just in case something strange happens due to unknown facts.

Then you're covered with the owner. sometimes you can't get all of the facts to make a good decision so you go with the best you can do and hope for the best. but either way, the owner knows the story.

powell
10-05-2008, 06:46 PM
....................:o

hhchvac@verizon
11-05-2008, 01:12 AM
Hey guys, just logged back in. Want to say thanks for your comments and voice my enthusiasm about this site. Very excited to be able to get service/HVAC help from you guru's out in cyberland.Went out to that call today to investigate further.Compressor does have a removeable well.Actually removed it to see how it is installed.Did not like what I saw.Tiny shards of metal fillings stuck to well insert.At any rate compressor is Copeland Discus mod. 3DT3-1500-TFD-232. 460 volt-3phase. Installed in York mod.H1CE180A46E. Believe I was wrong on tonage. 15 ton.

US Iceman
11-05-2008, 02:08 AM
Tiny shards of metal fillings stuck to well insert.


Inside or outside of the well? If they are inside, it's probably just the heater. If they are on the outside, it's common to find some very fine silver colored dust in the oil from normal wear and break-in period.

powell
11-05-2008, 02:11 AM
Hey guys, just logged back in. Want to say thanks for your comments and voice my enthusiasm about this site. Very excited to be able to get service/HVAC help from you guru's out in cyberland.Went out to that call today to investigate further.Compressor does have a removeable well.Actually removed it to see how it is installed.Did not like what I saw.Tiny shards of metal fillings stuck to well insert.At any rate compressor is Copeland Discus mod. 3DT3-1500-TFD-232. 460 volt-3phase. Installed in York mod.H1CE180A46E. Believe I was wrong on tonage. 15 ton.
hhchvacr,

Now that we know the model number, here are the part numbers. But, if it's a 460v heater Copeland stopped making them. You have to use a 120v or 240v and install a step down transformer.:(

918-0028-00 120v heater
918-0028-01 240v heater
030-0187-00 sleeve

Metal particles in the oil is not a good sign. Usually it's a result from overheating which causes oil breakdown, cylinder wall erosion etc.

The three major contributors to overheating are: High compression ratio, high return gas temperatures and lack of motor cooling.

Whichever you do; change the compressor or keep the existing one, check for overheating. Measure the discharge line temperature 6" from the compressor. It should not exceed 225 F.

regards............Powell

US Iceman
11-05-2008, 02:11 AM
powell,

You might be right but there is a big difference between a tin can and and cast iron body.:)

He did confirm it's a Discus, but your post is good. It's always difficult to read into the posts what the poster is actually talking about sometimes because of the lack of details.

powell
11-05-2008, 02:16 AM
powell,

You might be right but there is a big difference between a tin can and and cast iron body.:)

He did confirm it's a Discus, but your post is good. It's always difficult to read into the posts what the poster is actually talking about sometimes because of the lack of details.
Well heck US Iceman, I removed the post:(......shoulda waited for your comment.

Thanks

US Iceman
11-05-2008, 02:21 AM
There goes your post count. Down by one!;)