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frank
08-04-2008, 03:50 PM
I have possibly talked a friend of mine into having his oil fired boiler ripped out and replaced with a Daikin Altherma unit, coupled with a roof mounted solar collector. He is quite interested in future energy savings and this seems to be the latest technology on the market. (basically an air source heat pump). http://www.daikinaltherma.com:8080/index_altherma.jsp?mt=508&taxonomy_id=508&lang=en&site=250

As the system will mostly be for heating the house and sanitary water, cooling is not really considered.

Has anyone had any experience of working with this equipment? Does it do what it says on the box?

As he is a friend, I don't want to mislead him based on the sales hype and I certainly don't want him bending my ear everytime we go for a beer ;)

jfriman
08-04-2008, 08:52 PM
Here in sweden is the Altherma a really god solution. Even in the northen part of sweden!

Everybody is saving a lot of energy! So i dont think that your friend will be disapointed.

/ Jfriman

frank
08-04-2008, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the feedback Jfriman :)

nh3wizard
08-04-2008, 09:06 PM
Feed him 5 or 6 pints and it wont matter:D

frank
08-04-2008, 09:11 PM
Feed him 5 or 6 pints and it wont matter:D
5 or 6?
Geez - that's just a MOUTHWASH :D

DVaider
09-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Hello, Frank. I have a deal with Daikin stuff. I think that Altherma should be a little bit better than other heat pumps (in case of COP and other technical parameters). But the additional equipment (sanitary tank, EKSOL etc.) make this system very expensive. I advise to your friend to buy the cheaper additional equipment with same characteristics (if he wants to save his money :) )

jfriman
09-04-2008, 02:00 PM
Hi, i dont know anything about the prices in Uk, but here in sweden is the Altherma about the same price as the other brands.

But i suppose that your friend is going to change all of his equipment!!

And if the prices are about the same as the other product“s i will think that he is going to save a bit more energy with the Altherma!

Well god luck anyway / Jfriman

Refrigerologist
19-04-2008, 12:51 AM
I have possibly talked a friend of mine into having his oil fired boiler ripped out and replaced with a Daikin Altherma unit, coupled with a roof mounted solar collector. He is quite interested in future energy savings and this seems to be the latest technology on the market. (basically an air source heat pump). http://www.daikinaltherma.com:8080/index_altherma.jsp?mt=508&taxonomy_id=508&lang=en&site=250

As the system will mostly be for heating the house and sanitary water, cooling is not really considered.

Has anyone had any experience of working with this equipment? Does it do what it says on the box?

As he is a friend, I don't want to mislead him based on the sales hype and I certainly don't want him bending my ear everytime we go for a beer ;)

Frank, I take it he has underfloor heating installed and not radiators? Or he is going to install underfloor heating?

frank
20-04-2008, 05:45 PM
Only in the new extension - back of house. The original house will re-use the existing radiators, but these will have to become low temp radiators

Krondor
20-04-2008, 09:50 PM
We installed seversal Altherma's 2 years ago. It seems to work fine, and really saving energy. Though, for my opinion it has 2 weak points:
1. It would be very nice if the Altherma could be used also for pool heating (it would't heat with heat pump above 25 degrees).
2. Its price is very very high.

We have founs some very familiar chineese units. May be thier cop will be a littlle bit lower, but its price is less than a half. Worth considering...

frank
21-04-2008, 08:43 PM
We have founs some very familiar chineese units. May be thier cop will be a littlle bit lower, but its price is less than a half. Worth considering...
Thanks Krondor
Do you have any links to the Chinese stuff?

nike123
21-04-2008, 10:40 PM
We have founs some very familiar chineese units. May be thier cop will be a littlle bit lower, but its price is less than a half. Worth considering...

Expirence with Chinese products is usualy "no parts and no support". Also worth considering...

Greengrocer
25-04-2008, 02:22 AM
Frank. Daikin have a software program for Atherma (selection / running costs / savings etc. Similar to the VRV Express program). This can be downloaded from the Daikin Extranet site which you have to register for first in order log on. Look under software down loads. Failing that if you deal with Space get them to send you a copy. We are a Daikin D1 partner but have no experiece of Altherma system because we don't do much residential work.
You may also want to take a look at Hitachi's "AquaFree" system - split outdoor unit & indoor Hydro-box set up (can be used for swimming pools also). Info is on their UK site under Domestic Heating.
Mitsi Electric also do an air to water heatpump Boiler now which is single packaged unit with only plumbing required - aimed at the "wet boys". Info is on their web site also.
A lot of heating companies are getting in on the Heat scene also. Check out the Newheat website & of course there is Calorex.
Daikin system is probably the most integrated of all & now has a solar colector add on available too.
Sorry I can't provide links as I am a new boy & havn't met my minimum No. of posts yet.

Krondor
25-04-2008, 08:07 AM
Frank, here is the link to the chinese site that i found:

http://www.sero.com.cn/en/products001.html?proTypeID=13330&proTypeName=Heat%20Pumps

if you look at the DC inverter series (air to water) its very similiar to the Altherma.
Another very interesting product is: Heat pump to solar energy, however i like it less since it uses R407, which i like less then R410.

They say that their western Europe market is very large...

frank
25-04-2008, 09:44 PM
Frank, here is the link to the chinese site that i found:

http://www.sero.com.cn/en/products001.html?proTypeID=13330&proTypeName=Heat%20Pumps

if you look at the DC inverter series (air to water) its very similiar to the Altherma.
Another very interesting product is: Heat pump to solar energy, however i like it less since it uses R407, which i like less then R410.

They say that their western Europe market is very large...
Krondor
Thanks for the link. I must say that the air source kit looks extremely like the Daikin VRV stuff.

frank
25-04-2008, 09:49 PM
Greengrocer

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

I'm registered on the Daikin extranet but must confess, I haven't looked at the Altherma on there. I have looked on the Space site, but this only seems to catalogue past installations.

Good news is though, the friend of mine has given me the go ahead to do the install - watch this space.

It will be the latest kit with the solar panels.

bobjob
25-04-2008, 10:08 PM
Daikin have now signed an agreement with Wolsley to market Altherma
and start training courses for them this week.

they will soon be on sale at all Plumb centres


regards bob

Greengrocer
25-04-2008, 10:28 PM
Daikin have now signed an agreement with Wolsley to market Altherma
and start training courses for them this week.

they will soon be on sale at all Plumb centres


regards bob

Oh dear. There goes the neighborhood. Plumbers with vac pumps.:eek: I guess it was inevitable since the system is primarily "wet".

stuartwking
28-04-2008, 09:56 PM
That does not sound like a good idea,.

frank
28-04-2008, 10:15 PM
Well, an update.

The job is definitely a goer, so the kit is now on order.

The Solar Panel man is providing 2 x evacuated tube panels rated at 1.5kw each, and he is installing them for me - leave it to the experts, that's what I say!

I'm down at Guildford for a training course this week so when I get back on Friday I should be raring to go.

Pictures to follow, but this may be a few weeks away.

jfriman
06-05-2008, 12:42 PM
Well, an update.

The job is definitely a goer, so the kit is now on order.

The Solar Panel man is providing 2 x evacuated tube panels rated at 1.5kw each, and he is installing them for me - leave it to the experts, that's what I say!

I'm down at Guildford for a training course this week so when I get back on Friday I should be raring to go.

Pictures to follow, but this may be a few weeks away.

Hi.

Just a quick question!

Do you have any datasheets or other good information for the solarpanels? I am interested in information about what kind of solarpanels, sizes of them, and how to connect them with best results!

/ Jfriman

frank
06-05-2008, 09:44 PM
Hi.

Just a quick question!

Do you have any datasheets or other good information for the solarpanels? I am interested in information about what kind of solarpanels, sizes of them, and how to connect them with best results!

/ Jfriman
Sorry no. I'm leaving the solar panel installation to a specialist.

Electrocoolman
07-05-2008, 01:57 AM
Hi Jfriman,

Have a look at

www.navitron.org.uk

jfriman
07-05-2008, 01:15 PM
Hi Jfriman,

I Had to remove the adress to post this message!:mad:

Thank“s, but im after a complete solution just for the Altherma. But thank you again for the link!:)

kaspastarr
21-05-2008, 07:30 PM
i work at daikin and i can tell you it is a good peice of kit. GET IT
64

Rhew
31-05-2008, 12:12 AM
Hi Frank
I have had a enquiry today about the use of the altherma system with solar pannels and was wondering how you were getting along with yours Frank

Rhew

frank
31-05-2008, 10:35 PM
Hi Frank
I have had a enquiry today about the use of the altherma system with solar panels and was wondering how you were getting along with yours Frank

Rhew

Hi Rhew

Well, I've been there all day today finishing off the plumbing side and the solar panel guy came to visit so we could discuss the interface between the two.

As this is a new one to both of us, I think we did OK.

He's coming on Tuesday to complete the solar installation and I've left him some 22mm copper stubs to connect to.

I managed today to get the customer some hot water and heating and as soon as the solar is finished, we can shout for the commissioning guy from down Guildford to come up and explain exactly how it should be set up.

I'll report back later. So far, so good. Seems to work spot on. It took the 200 litre tank 40 minutes from cold to get up to 55C.

Rhew
01-06-2008, 07:30 PM
I`ll look foreward to your report frank, I`ll be getting in touch with daikin monday for as much info on sizing etc that I can lay my hands on. I think this will be a growing market here in the UK.

Rhew
03-06-2008, 11:47 AM
Hi Frank
Out of intrest which solar pannel did you use.

Cheers
Rhew

frank
03-06-2008, 09:04 PM
The new evacuated tube.

At 6.15 tonight, the panel was showing 49C temp in the rain and cloudy skies - amazing!!!!

The solar panel lads finished the install today and commissioned.

Just got to get the lads up now from Guildford to commission the whole system properly.

sinewave
04-06-2008, 05:42 PM
Hi Frank,

Anymore feedback yet?

As you may be aware I am/was looking at the Mitsubishi version of this the Ecodan however for my size of house the 9kW Mitsi just won't cut it.


What size of house can the Daikin unit accomodate comfortably and is it only viable combined with solar power due to the low flow temps?

Rhew
04-06-2008, 07:41 PM
Sinewave
The altherma states in their price list that it goes up to 16kw heating 13.10 cooling.

frank
04-06-2008, 08:49 PM
Hi Frank,

Anymore feedback yet?

As you may be aware I am/was looking at the Mitsubishi version of this the Ecodan however for my size of house the 9kW Mitsi just won't cut it.


What size of house can the Daikin unit accomodate comfortably and is it only viable combined with solar power due to the low flow temps?
Hi Sinewave

From what I know at this stage (need more training) the Altherma can heat and cool independently without solar panels. the solar add on just makes it more energy efficient, and if, going by what I saw yesterday, free water heating is what you are interested in, then this is surely the way to go.

The cooling operation looks to be rather difficult in the UK climate, and I'm told, is more suited to warmer climates (i.e.Spain).

have a read of this http://www.daikinaltherma.com:8080/index_altherma.jsp?mt=508&taxonomy_id=508&lang=en&site=250

Reefer1
05-06-2008, 03:21 AM
Does anyone know what the heat exchangers are made out of? Can they handle swimming pool chemicals?

frank
05-06-2008, 09:22 PM
The one I cut my head on was stainless steel so I guess it would be OK for chlorine. ;)

pistebasher
07-06-2008, 08:48 PM
Browsing the web looking for info on the Daikin Altherma and I trip over you folks!
So apologies for this, my first post! I promise not to be much trouble in future!


I'm just laying the foundations for a 'log cabin' bungalow for a customer near Horsham and I'm looking for a 'Part L' compliant way of heating the DHW and CH.
The suggested plan is to fit an oil fired boiler for dhw + ch radiators and then a wood burner to comply with the 'renewables' aspect. As the project builder, this seems daft to me, so hence I'm looking for a 'greener' and more sustainable alternative.
I would guestimate the above installation to be around £5000-£6000 so I'm wondering how a heat pump system might compare?
As there is plenty of land around the building, a ground source system would also be applicable.
Solar panels could also be an option, but presume are costly?

frank
07-06-2008, 08:55 PM
Have a look at this site http://www.daikinaltherma.com:8080/index_altherma.jsp?mt=508&taxonomy_id=508&lang=en&site=250

The solar panels for a 200ltr tank should cost around £2500 + vat fitted or thereabouts.

pistebasher
07-06-2008, 10:41 PM
Thanks for that.
Have emailed an enquiry to 'Space Air'.

Slim R410a
18-06-2008, 11:59 AM
The new evacuated tube.

At 6.15 tonight, the panel was showing 49C temp in the rain and cloudy skies - amazing!!!!

The solar panel lads finished the install today and commissioned.

Just got to get the lads up now from Guildford to commission the whole system properly.

Hi Frank,

Very interesting thread, as I do a lot of domestic splits.
Is the install fully commissioned now? Do you have any pics etc of the install??

Cheers

frank
18-06-2008, 09:50 PM
The install is now commissioned, but - there are 3 radiators still to fit as they can only be done as the building work progresses (plasterers etc.)

I've got to re-visit and insulate the sanitary pipework (armaflex) and then install these rads. This will obviously mean draining down and then re-filling but it should take no more than a day.

I'll take some pictures then.

rebellad
08-08-2008, 01:54 PM
Any update on this Frank, I am looking at this system for a new build and would be interested to know how it's going??

frank
08-08-2008, 09:04 PM
Hi rebel

Yes, the job was finally completed and the customer was more than happy.

He tells me that he gets home from work, runs a bath full of lovely hot water (via the solar panels). gets in it and then says to himself - hey, I've worked all day - but this is FREE !! :D

We have now got a couple more installs to do and I'm shortly (end of August) going on the Daikin Training course and following that we can apply for the 'Approved Installer Status' which will allow the customer to apply for the Government Grant of £900.
This should give us an edge when quoting.

The enquiries are stacking up nicely at the moment. I think this will take off, just like central heating in the Seventies.

Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to take any piccies - sorry.

Note to self - 'must try harder next time' :)

1torr
08-08-2008, 09:15 PM
Went on the Altherma training this week and I'm very impressed.
Reefer 1, as for chlorine you would have to have a seperate pool pump and heat x.Daikin would design system. Cheers Kev.

susib
06-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Hi Frank, I am a selfbuilder looking for full plumbing service to include air source heat pump and underfloor heating. Can you help? Thanks
Susib

rebellad
30-09-2008, 11:20 AM
Hi rebel

Yes, the job was finally completed and the customer was more than happy.

He tells me that he gets home from work, runs a bath full of lovely hot water (via the solar panels). gets in it and then says to himself - hey, I've worked all day - but this is FREE !! :D

We have now got a couple more installs to do and I'm shortly (end of August) going on the Daikin Training course and following that we can apply for the 'Approved Installer Status' which will allow the customer to apply for the Government Grant of £900.
This should give us an edge when quoting.

The enquiries are stacking up nicely at the moment. I think this will take off, just like central heating in the Seventies.

Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to take any piccies - sorry.

Note to self - 'must try harder next time' :)

Hi again frank, thanks for getting back to me on this. I was just wondering do you know how your client has got on bills wise so fair with the altherma, has his electricity bill been adversely affected by it??

frank
30-09-2008, 09:07 PM
Funny you should mention it.

The customer came around my house last night and popped in to say Hi (he's a friend of one of my neighbours).

He told me that since I commissioned and installed the kW hour meter for him, he's noticed that the meter has now clocked up 200 kWh's, since May.

At 10p average cost per kWh, that equates to around £20 !!!

He says that the solar panels are a godsend and that "anyone thinking of having air source heat pump fitted must need their head examined if they don't incorporate solar."

Not my words..................

rebellad
01-10-2008, 09:35 AM
Funny you should mention it.

The customer came around my house last night and popped in to say Hi (he's a friend of one of my neighbours).

He told me that since I commissioned and installed the kW hour meter for him, he's noticed that the meter has now clocked up 200 kWh's, since May.

At 10p average cost per kWh, that equates to around £20 !!!

He says that the solar panels are a godsend and that "anyone thinking of having air source heat pump fitted must need their head examined if they don't incorporate solar."

Not my words..................

That sounds unbelievable Frank!!
Unfortunately my house is west facing so I am currently trying to figure out is there any way I can install them elsewhere. I am getting the Solar kit on the water tank regardless so it can be added later on if needs be.

krychek
04-12-2008, 01:21 AM
dvaider - cant believe you actually recommended someone from purchasing from a reliable manufacturer to a cheaper alternative.
buy cheap, buy twice......big headache from nagging wife ;-)

frank
04-12-2008, 11:47 PM
dvaider - cant believe you actually recommended someone from purchasing from a reliable manufacturer to a cheaper alternative.
buy cheap, buy twice......big headache from nagging wife ;-)
I'm not sure dvaider made any comments on this thread??????...

Am I going MAD???;)

krychek
05-12-2008, 10:36 AM
dvaider - cant believe you actually recommended someone from purchasing from a reliable manufacturer to a cheaper alternative.
buy cheap, buy twice......big headache from nagging wife ;-)

lol, what on earth is going on - I surely couldnt make a name up like that and make a post......it was there I tell you it was there !!!:confused:

cheers frank for letting me know Im going nuts.

Anyway :off topic:

krychek
05-12-2008, 10:39 AM
Frank - sorry mate you are going nuts, that illusive post is #6 in this topic

LMAO.

rr1
08-03-2009, 03:16 PM
Here in sweden is the Altherma a really god solution. Even in the northen part of sweden!

Everybody is saving a lot of energy!
/ Jfriman

sorry from my bad english,
since September 2008, pac altherma daikin air-water model 14 kilowatts ERHQ014AA with hot water

works very well, even in -12 ° C no problems, and work with out off appoints the resistances.
consumer price of a fuel bill divided by 3


Never purchase price, but rather a quality product installed by an artisan who has his own worker
My advice is to visit homes equipped with different types of heaters to ensure that occupants are monitoring
installations carried correctly?
the schemas will not be the same with which the floor heating water temperature is regulated permissible and install radiators with
In all cases, the total liters (heating circuit may Balloon + buffer) must be 15 liters per kW of power, 25 is a balloon maximum.on advises buffer if the network is less than 50 liters.
for a mixed PC and install radiators, focus on a secondary control room thermostat to manage the mixing valve 3 way that sends the low water on the pc.
With an inverter, we must work as much as possible in law to prevent water stops and starts intempestifs.the pac just provide the power required to compensate the losses of the house and this will bring more comfort because the temperature will be constant .

stuartwking
08-03-2009, 11:43 PM
Hi rr1,

what kind of HW cylinder are you using over there?. Minus 12 sound fantastic!. do you have any project reports or system monitoring data?.
Do you use Solar thermal pack?

thebigcheese
09-03-2009, 08:40 PM
i have been at a house which has two heatpumps fitted.... they have been in from last june andthey never worked right, they then got the electric bill in for the 4months and the units were running at a cost of 30 pound a day.the company who sold them and installed had been out a number of times and washed there hands off the job.. i should add they had been told it would be less than 10 pound aweek. we found both units shot of gas and then undersized.... since then the units have been ripped out and replaced with gas boilers

these are not daikin units.

krychek
10-03-2009, 10:46 AM
are those toshiba units in your avatar?

Anyway, are you sure your math is correct 'thebigcheese', £30 pounds a day is alot of electricity for any domestic premise!

Just a quick calc...

At the worst case with 50deg c flow temp delta t of 5, the COP of an 8kw model which would equate to around 2.6.(excluding hot water)

Hence for every kw input it outputs 2.6kw. Any air to water heat pump system is generally going to be on in the winter months 18hrs of the day just in order to keep the flow temp topped up.

Hence this equates to around 3kw power hour input usage, here in the uk domestic tariff is around 10p/p/kwh
= 18hrs at 30p per hour = £5 per day per heat pump (£10 per day for both)

And this is worst case scenario, lower flow temps would give you better COPS - 4.5cop at 35 LWT!!

Your heat pump would equate to a negative COP (more or less), hence the compressor has decided it doesnt like the latent energy cycle and wants to do its own thing or your calcs are incorrect.Have another check mate.

Cheers

thebigcheese
12-03-2009, 09:11 PM
there was two 12kw units. ground floor and up stairs. underfloor heating only. the units where short of refrigerant and never reaching temp. therefore two units running none stop 24hours aday.going onto defrost every 10 mins and bringing on elec heaters for the tank when on defrost.

as i said it wasnt me or my company that installed these we were brought in by a consultant who was working with the client as the oringal company said there was nothing wrong.

frank
12-03-2009, 11:25 PM
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o38/frankyboy_01/DSC_0006-3.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o38/frankyboy_01/DSC_0005-1.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o38/frankyboy_01/DSC_0003-3.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o38/frankyboy_01/DSC_0012-3.jpg

Electrocoolman
12-03-2009, 11:40 PM
Hi Frank, good pictures and installation. Justone question...what's the black cylinder below the RHS of the internal Altherma unit?

rr1
13-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Hi rr1,

what kind of HW cylinder are you using over there?.
Do you use Solar thermal pack?


you can see my setup in my photo part section. my hot water tank is 200 liters and consumes 4 kWh per day.
must be sufficiently open-bottomed taps on loops of the coldest in the house, so that water makes a great way in the underfloor before back to the unit. I do not have solar heating.


soon I like post any right plan, after several posts :mad:


the ball will be additional to increase the total volume of water, put in line (in on pipes)
but I prefer no room thermostat. each room's temperature regulated by thermostatic = even more comfort and it is the unit that regulates the demand by the law of water. The thermostat only be used as a limiter of overheating, but it 's without it.
settle the coldest room of the house (for example a thermostat bath almost fully open) it will be the reference than other parts, thermostats will be adjusted lower by 19c ° anyway.
so that the unit make no hot water => less than even electrique.
total cost winter = heating and hot water less than 500 euros,or 460.50 GBP here in the price french domestic tariff

frank
13-03-2009, 10:24 PM
Hi Frank, good pictures and installation. Justone question...what's the black cylinder below the RHS of the internal Altherma unit?
It's a magnetic filter on the return pipe. To the left of it you may note the flow meter on the flow pipe. And in the corner - left - is the 3 way valve. http://www.adeysolutions.co.uk/Professional.asp

Sinewave should recognise this picture as he came out to visit during commissioning.

brunstar
20-03-2009, 12:25 AM
try visiting www.altherma.co.uk (http://www.altherma.co.uk)

Griffithsaircon
22-03-2009, 08:33 PM
Frank

My name is karl and i work for Griffiths Air conditioning and electrical based in Burton Latimer Northamptonshire we have fitted alot of these systems and i have had problems with the kit at all its fantastic take a look at our website for more details or alternativly contact us for a quote to save getting it in the neck down the pub.

griffithsaircon.co.uk

Karl

al
23-03-2009, 12:23 AM
why the ad if you've had so many problems with the kit??
we have fitted alot of these systems and i have had problems with the kit :eek:

al

ian g
25-03-2009, 11:16 PM
hi karl did you mean havent had problems ?. I have fitted 9 systems 4 of them before this winter and have had no problems my customers who were on oil have saved loads of cash :D

frank
21-04-2009, 09:30 PM
I think we get the message Brunstar ;)

nike123
21-04-2009, 09:40 PM
He is stuck in some repeating loop! You admins should help him to get out of that loop!:D

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/search.php?searchid=769633

sinewave
26-04-2009, 06:27 PM
Yes, nice pix Frank!


Now the Wifey knows what I've been banging on about recently!

:D

jamesjones
09-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Sorry no. I'm leaving the solar panel installation to a specialist.

I would be weary of people calling themselves solar specialist we have fixed a few of their solar systems already [Website removed, advertising not allowed]

hendrag
19-06-2009, 10:47 AM
hi ive recently rejoined Space air and am currently looking in great detail at the Altherma system. Why not come to one of our new training courses.

Originally i was a sceptic that a heat pump would heat in all temperatures, now im converted. The Daikin Altherma is a heat pump chiller capable of heating your water to 55C. Daikins system has a backup heater to assist the heat pump if it is struggling, this is usually only required when the outdoor ambient is very low.

when we size this kit its a bit of a balancing act because if you undersize the heat pump the backup heater is on more and if you over size the heat pump it has to cycle on and off, remember even inverters can only go so slow, so when the capacity provided exceeds the load we have to cycle it on and off which is not good.

Daikin have a piece of software which will do all the calcs for you and even tell you when the backup heater will run, how much the energy cost will be and does comparisons with gas oil etc.

It is not a cheap solution though, an altherma will be more than 3 times the price of a combi boiler but if you are burning oil, or electricity to heat your house installing this thing is a no brainer. The argument for gas fired vs heat pump is less convincing as the run cost savings are less prominent.

if you have any questions on altherma please ask me, i will try to help. Its a great system which has been really well thought out, the control is fantastic and its designed to save energy wherever possible, it even has a legionella prevention cycle as standard and yes you can link it to swimming pools.

good luck

Graham Hendra Space air Consulting Technical Manager

frank
19-06-2009, 08:27 PM
Why not come to one of our new training courses.
I asked a while ago about training for the Altherma but got a bit of a brush off as Neil likes to keep it all secret.

Went on the Daikin training course instead.

krychek
20-06-2009, 12:29 PM
Graham from Space Air....(its amazing what you can find on google these days)

There are a number of things wrong with your post.

1. Its a blatent advert but I wont ask for it to be removed as it serves a purpose.

2. You were the Technical Guru for LG before moving to UK General Manager for LG....you also worked for Daikin UK as their Technical Guru at one point (stop me if im wrong....)
Its only now you are convinced that Heat pumps would be sutiable for domestic use.....you were the technical guru werent you...surely as you would know heat pumps for domestic applications have actually been in use for about 15 years....once again ...you were the technical guru werent you????? ;-)

3. Surely for your first post you could come up with something more viable to boost your all ready faltering credability within the market place...its a little bit of a step down to come from Sales director of LG to go and work for Space Air...dont you think.

4. What does this say for the company that took you on......

5. Your own home profile still clearly connects you with LG - sort it out Graham.......

Anyway i suppose its only a matter of time before Space is bought out by Daikin and you eventually end up back to where you came from and I guess they will be then faced with your credability....



Goodluck Graham - think your going to need it.....ps still got your own dodgy website running?

thebigcheese
24-06-2009, 11:06 PM
would i sense some upset

krychek
25-06-2009, 10:21 AM
:off topic:

My post took the emphasis off the original subject matter for that i apologise.

No upset bigcheese ;) im sure you would agree that its difficult to listen to people who go to one company and state the product is the best then to another and so on, especially all within a 2-3 year timeframe and who was at the highest point in the tree at LG within UK, hence why i called into question credability but most importantly it was a blatent advert.

Hence the reason for getting a little annoyed, but tbh it could have been any company and manufacturer,this site is to help one another not for personal or company gain in my eyes.....

Its defo nothing personal i dont even know the guy, but i did get a nice email thanking me for my concern.....i feel all loved.:D

desA
25-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Daikins system has a backup heater to assist the heat pump if it is struggling, this is usually only required when the outdoor ambient is very low.

Nothing like adding a resistive heater element, or two to balance out the thermal performance of a 'Green Energy' heating solution, is there? :)

krychek
25-06-2009, 12:22 PM
It serves a number of functions desA.Although the backup heater will only ever come on a correctly sized system for 3 to 5% of the year for a very good reason, i.e low ambient conditions but still only 3 to 5%.....

1. the water volume content is lower than any of the manufacturers who dont have a backup heater.

2. during defrost cycle the backup will kick in to keep the water flow temperature up...imagine if you didnt have it like the other products on the market - cold water thru the manifold...not the best scenario i would think?

3. green issue - I can see where you maybe coming from, but the efficiency figures and running costs speak for themselves - even europe recognise as renewable form of energy.

hope this helps.

Peter Wickens
26-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Frank, Altherma is a good product, i personally have installed 8 systems now. i suggest when using existing Rads you look at changing these to double rads as the low temp isnt as effective on a standard rad, you have to remember that conventional boilers get up to about 80' on the surface. underfloor heating is the best and truley what altherma was designed for, however i believthere is a 50' surface temperatre altherma coming V soon, my opinion is to hang 10 and wait for the new one!! :)

frank
26-06-2009, 09:00 PM
Frank, Altherma is a good product, i personally have installed 8 systems now. i suggest when using existing Rads you look at changing these to double rads as the low temp isnt as effective on a standard rad, you have to remember that conventional boilers get up to about 80' on the surface. underfloor heating is the best and truley what altherma was designed for, however i believthere is a 50' surface temperatre altherma coming V soon, my opinion is to hang 10 and wait for the new one!! :)
Thanks for your kind words Peter, but, if you read the whole thread, you will note that we have now installed quite a few of these units and are up to speed with the current models, Daikin training and current developments.

Always nice to read other members posts and opinions though.

S_Line
20-07-2009, 09:44 AM
Hi guys, what are the service costs on one of these ?
Would it be a annual service ?

Brian

RIK-MAY
20-07-2009, 05:52 PM
my old company really pushed the altherma kit in the north east of scotland as it was not thought about up here and no other companies would take the risk in the current financial climate. The company is now the lone supplier in altherma kit in the north east as the kit has really made an impacted and the feedback has been really good...

BUT and theres always a but there was a few problems with corrosion on the water senson in the water tank after only 6 months! easy to replace but a fault all the same. This was a good year ago so maby it has been resolved or maby it was jst a bad batch but there u go,

ecohometec
21-08-2009, 11:55 PM
Hi Frank,

I have been working with heat pumps for five years now and developed a range of hydralic and electrical schematics to suit a range of units. I have found some units that upon closer inspection carry exactly the same level of control and performance as the units you seem to be looking at but with full BRE approval and along with myself i can help support on grant applications to make things even more cost effective. let me know if i can be of any assistance.

Si@Airmaster
05-02-2010, 12:49 PM
All quiet from the graham hendra camp, nice well researched smack dude!!!

krychek
08-02-2010, 12:05 AM
has he left Space already ? ;-)

leeapole
26-03-2010, 09:04 PM
looks like a dead thread?! shame you boys cant all get along! :confused:

krychek
27-03-2010, 09:25 AM
just friendly banter............surely you understand that.
As you can see its a good topic ASHP's with lots of positive input from all sides.

Do you have anything else to say, what experience do you have with them, bring it to the fold and we can all gather more knowledge about the subject?

Cheers leeapole.

billliu210
30-03-2010, 02:04 AM
Yes, you're right. Heat pump is springing up in China for these two years. The technology is mature , the cost is half and the quality is almost the same. You can find proper in China if you like.

Toosh
30-03-2010, 05:15 AM
yes, you're right. Heat pump is springing up in china for these two years. The technology is mature , the cost is half and the quality is almost the same. You can find proper in china if you like.


this thread is dead

mickado
14-02-2011, 11:28 PM
Hi there

Been reading your thread and I'm considering training for the altherma system is there a strong market for this in the uk?