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matt watson
28-03-2008, 10:18 PM
Hi there fellas
Just joined the site and i like what i see
I myself am getting into the industrial scene
What are some effective ways for automatic oil return on ammonia systems. I am well aware of the manual draining exercise but just wanted to know are there many effective automatic procedures????
look forward to the replies

guapo
29-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Install a oil separator at the discharge then put auto drain under oil separator going back to your suction.

Guapo

Josip
29-03-2008, 04:57 PM
Hi, matt watson :)

Welcome to RE forums...


Hi there fellas
Just joined the site and i like what i see
I myself am getting into the industrial scene
What are some effective ways for automatic oil return on ammonia systems. I am well aware of the manual draining exercise but just wanted to know are there many effective automatic procedures????
look forward to the replies

yes there are.... but must be design within plant from beginning... modifications done later usually are not good...return of dirty oil from the last evaporator back to compressor suction can be very expensive sometimes....

.... good help is to install special self closed valves (with spring) for oil drain...

:confused: if you loose too much oil then you must search for cause ... automatic oil return will not improve/repair your problem/cause

.... little smell of ammonia will keep you awake and ever ready;)

Best regards, Josip :)

Oregon Jim
29-03-2008, 05:12 PM
I have never heard of an automatic oil draining system on an ammonia system. At my company's facilities we have our oil traps set up so that we may use NH3 pressure to drain the traps into an "oil regenerator", a heated vessel where the oil and ammonia may be separated. (I do not know if there is another name for this separator vessel.) The residual oil is then either used as fuel in our boilers, or it is recycled.

On a personal note, I would recommend against an automatic oil drain system as it is very important to know how much oil is being removed from the system, and the quality of the oil being removed from the system may indicate serious problems such as moisture or even metal particles in the oil. An automatic system would remove your operators from this important information and might deprive you of the knowledge of troubles to come.

NH3LVR
29-03-2008, 06:37 PM
Just to clear up any possible confusion, let us understand what we are discussing.

We have refered to oil return on the discharge separator. This is essential on many machines.

Automatic draining of vessels back to a "Oil Still" is not uncommon. It also can be the source of many problems, as the first sign that it has quit working is that the evap fails due to oil logging.

Oregon Jim
29-03-2008, 07:01 PM
Pardon me... I misunderstood.

"Oil still... I like that better than "regenerator".

On our discharge separators we have installed sight glasses in the lines so that we have a way of seeing what is being returned. I do not like relying too much on automatic anything. It makes operators less observant.

Josip
29-03-2008, 07:24 PM
Hi, :)


I have never heard of an automatic oil draining system on an ammonia system. At my company's facilities we have our oil traps set up so that we may use NH3 pressure to drain the traps into an "oil regenerator", a heated vessel where the oil and ammonia may be separated. (I do not know if there is another name for this separator vessel.) The residual oil is then either used as fuel in our boilers, or it is recycled.

On a personal note, I would recommend against an automatic oil drain system as it is very important to know how much oil is being removed from the system, and the quality of the oil being removed from the system may indicate serious problems such as moisture or even metal particles in the oil. An automatic system would remove your operators from this important information and might deprive you of the knowledge of troubles to come.



Just to clear up any possible confusion, let us understand what we are discussing.

We have refered to oil return on the discharge separator. This is essential on many machines.

Automatic draining of vessels back to a "Oil Still" is not uncommon. It also can be the source of many problems, as the first sign that it has quit working is that the evap fails due to oil logging.

Yes, I agree it is not a fully automatic oil return system, but closed system with only one drain point...the same as described by Oregon Jim...and supported by NH3LVR ..... language can be a big barrier sometimes ;)

.... automatic oil return is normal between compressor and discharge separator....

... also we can install oil pump with pipe system for charging and draining of oil, kind of semiautomatic operation... because we have to open and close different valves regarding what we are doing...but this is another story;)

Best regards, Josip :)