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murattahtali
26-03-2008, 12:53 PM
Hi,
This is my first post, so hello to all to start with.

My problem is with a Daikin FDYP100 ducted inverter heatpump. After installation, it actually heated but wouldn't stop at the set temperature or at +2deg, it would keep heating at no end. We called the installer to fix it, the technician did some secret coding and said that it was good to go now. It worked fine during the day, but would keep blowing cold air during night. So we called the installer again, he fixed the cold air blowing. Then it would work intermittently during the day, and wouldn't even start during night. By the way, we have another ducted unit in the same house, the one that we had installed few years ealier before expanding the house, that one works like a charm. The old one is not an inverter unit but it turns itself on and off without any problem.

I tried switching from the controller temp sensor to the inlet one, without success. To summarize the current situation, the unit keeps blowing very mildly heated air (not completely cold) whereas it use to blow really warm air just after installation.

I am an engineer and have no problem following programming instructions but I could never get a clear answer from our installer as to what code is for what, and more importantly how I can check the current settings.

I would really appreciate the assistance of one of you A/C gurus in resetting our unit to factory defaults and then setting it to simply work with the fan stopping when there is no heating or cooling.

Thanks in advance.

The Viking
26-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Hi,
1. This is my first post, so hello to all to start with.

2. To summarize the current situation, the unit keeps blowing very mildly heated air (not completely cold) whereas it use to blow really warm air just after installation.

3. I am an engineer and have no problem following programming instructions but I could never get a clear answer from our installer as to what code is for what, and more importantly how I can check the current settings.


1.
Hello and welcome:cool:

2.
To me this sounds more like a performance problem than a control issue. If it have dropped in performance then something has changed, probably the amount of refrigerant in the system.

3.
See 2 above.

I really think that you need to get a good A/C engineer on the case, sorry.

From what I seen on other threads here, that might not be so easy down there but I know that there are a couple of decent aussies on this board.

Perhaps if you post a bit more detailed location, one of them would be able to assist you.

declan simmonds
26-03-2008, 11:09 PM
hello mate it sounds like a performance problem as discribed by viking ie probably short of gas in heating mode
The indoor fan motor waits to reach a target temp, reading the thermistor coil temp before the fan starts, so it might be reaching the target temp as the coil gets warm enough to start the fan motor but once its starts there isnt enough hot gas being supplied to the coil ie the feeling of mild or cold air coming from the ducts. do you get a temp difference across the off ?
get the engineer back to check the gas charge. im sure viking would agree, just another thought whats the unit like in cooling mode is the cooling poor also ? you also say the fan motor doesnt stop is that because it doesnt reach its target temp or fan motor run all the time ie forced fan ? i dont know whether you can do this with dakin units i know you can with the new tosh gear
cheers dec

murattahtali
27-03-2008, 03:08 AM
Thanks guys for your comments.

As for the performance, the unit is new and the cooling works fine, we even have the resistive booster installed, no luck. The last visit of the installer was last June. He claimed that everything was running fine and that he didn't have to change anything, but it was during day time. Then they sent me an invoice claiming that it was past warranty period, whereas the unit was never set properly. As I refused to pay, we are no longer seeing eye to eye, so I can't call the installer back.

Long story short, I am pretty sure that there is no gas shortage in the unit. The old unit I have (6 years old) is still working without any flaw.

If there is a way of reading the current settings on the old one I would like to set them on the new one.

In one of his earlier visits, the technician applied some codes from his "secret" sheet, I couldn't get a clear answer to what the codes were for. This is very annoying not being able to set your own equipment.

Even if there is no way of resetting to factory defaults, is there a way to dump the settings so that the problem can be traced without speculating what is set how?

Cheers,

declan simmonds
27-03-2008, 09:13 AM
Hello mate
Well thanks for the reply it sounds like a difficult one to me without being there, there are alot of many variable factors for the system to work properly as viking said you need a good a/c engineer on the case

without looking at the system set up its a little difficult to judge your exact problem a few questions for the rest of us would help the exact model numbers for the indoor outdoor and the controller would help alot and the gas is it r407c or R410A

im pretty sure that the old controller is not the same as the new one as the old type do not have remote stat fitted to them also i would like to know more about the set up I asume that the fan coil is above the ceiling where is it ? how many rooms or outlets are there ?
Does the fan coil drag the return air soley from the room or does it pick up some from above the ceiling or does it also get some fresh air from outside ?
where is the wired controller is it near the fan coil on the wall ? is the controller out of the sun and not near a windy place ? the engineer before has changed the settings within the controller he might have changed the differntial on the stat to a plus or minus so it reads the wrong temp .
So as you see there are alot of varibles im sure the other guys on this forum will tell you more
oh and one more thing my dads down under at the mo seeing his step son so say goodday to him you might recognise him he will probably have sun burn. haha
cheers dec

murattahtali
27-03-2008, 01:23 PM
Hello Declan,

Thanks for taking an interest in my problem. Here are the answers to your questions:

1. The exact model numbers:

Outdoor unit: Daikin FDYP100DLVI (inverter)
Indoor unit: Daikin FDY100FV1A

2. Refrigerant gas number: no idea (very likely green)

3. The fan coil is above the ceiling

4. there are 9 outlets (within the capacity of the unit)

5. return air is solely from the inside

6. the controller number: BRC1D61 (same as the old one)

7. the controller is on a wall in the middle of the house, in the shade and not windy place.

8. I recall the techinician mentioning about the differential, but no idea how much offset he set.

9. the technician had also mumbled about pressure differential as the return air is in the ceiling (not on a wall)

I should re-state that both units, the old and the new one have the same controller, so if I could duplicate the settings it might solve my problem.

I would really like to try resetting the unit to factory defaults and set any options from there. Can you please guide me through this?

The only option I would like to set is to stop the air blowing when the set point is reached.

Also, is there a test mode where I can operate the unit at full capacity to confirm that it is working without worrying about anything else interfering?

I should emphasize that the unit stopped performing after the first time we called in the technician when we had complained about the air blowing all the time. Before that it heated well. We had also complained that it switched to defrost mode more often than our old unit. The old unit is a dumb non-inverter one, but it works great at all times.

And about your dad Declan, I'll say G'day to every Englishman with a sunburn that I encounter :) . I am in Canberra though, not much of a tourist destination at this time of the year.

Cheers,

-Murat.

The Viking
27-03-2008, 06:36 PM
Sorry Murat,

The problems you are describing (lack of performance, frequent defrosts and an installation engineer you fallen out with) all point us towards a shortage of refrigerant. (my guess is that there is a small leak somewhere on the system).

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't an easy way to reset the system back to the factory settings (and these settings are stored in the indoor unit's PCB, so swapping the controllers isn't an option).

The codes you are requesting have the possibility to turn your unit off permanently and really are for engineers that gone through Daikin's training programme, sorry.

If you still insist on doing it yourself then the manuals for your unit are available on the net, try googeling for "daikin service manuals".

I still recommend you to get a professional in, as none of the coding options would give the symptoms that you describe.

Good luck,

Thermatech
27-03-2008, 08:45 PM
One of the engineers from Oz keep telling us that maunufacturers carry out all warrantee service visits.

So why is this enduser getting poor service ?

This is a good example why domestic a/c is a specialist activity.
No payment of bills for multiple return visits normal & loads of greef as well.

Iceman Ian
28-03-2008, 08:28 AM
G'day Murat

I have been a Daikin dealer for a lot of years now. I have read your story and am dissapointed it has come to a dispute with your installer. If he is a Daikin dealer, you do have the avenue to contact Daikin Australia direct and tell them your grievances, I am sure you will find them to be most helpful. We do not have a huge problem with heating up here on the NSW Mid Noth Coast (beautiful one day, better than Queensland the next) but I have assisted a couple of mates with a similar problem on jobs west of Sydney. Condenser fan cycling during the heating mode can be reconfigured to mprove the heat (this should already be done to suit the cold temperatures you guys get, and is done at the outdoor unit). You could have a faulty de-ice sensor or control. I feel, like others here that there is a very good chance the system is short of gas. Indoor fan cycling can be done from the wall control and can be set to stop the indoor fan totally (amongst other configurations) when the coil temperature drops below a set point when the system cycles off, or reduces capacity. Getting full access to the codes on the remote controller is not a good thing, as a lot of configuration damage can be done if you do not know the codes (service techs receive heavy duty training in this stuff and can still manage to bugger things). There are a few other reasons that could be possible, but without seeing the system, it is near impossibl to diagnose correctly. Please contact a reputable dealer to attend or call Daikin direct. Warranty is for 5 years, has this system been in longer than this? I have found the Daikin Inverter range of split ducted systems to be the must reliable and efficient on the market for their designed use, and beat most, if not all other manufacturers with their rated heating output. You really do get what the capacity charts show. (Outdoor Model would be: RZP100DLV1). Please keep us informed of your progress, I am very interested in the outcome.

Regards
Iceman Ian

declan simmonds
28-03-2008, 08:56 AM
Hello murat thanks for describing your problems with a little more detail i was unable to find the daikin model number from the uk web site maybe its a auz unit only in the uk they only sell a FDYP125 but im sure its pretty simlar on the control side sharing the same boards as most dakin splits share the same generic board.
As from what you describe then the system is short of refrigerant ie regular defrosts on the condenser unit in heating,as far as i am aware heat pumps contain more refrigerant within the system so the unit can function properly in heating mode

So as you say it might be ok on cooling but short when it comes to heating mode, so from my conclusion you definatley need a a/c engineer to check the system pressures and temps and im sure you dont have the tools to do that,
and dealing with refrigerant is dangerous as it can give third degree burns if you still want to mess around with the control setttings then send me a private message with email address and i can send you the service manual for the the system but i wont be held repsonable if you mess it up

As viking said unless you know what your doing then you can mess it up big time also from what you said in your reply then messing around with the codes wouldnt give the results your looking for i would put in test mode to see if you get any faults come up first then take it from there, and find a good fridgie im sure there are loads out there, alot seem to be here though
good luck declan

paul_h
28-03-2008, 09:10 AM
One of the engineers from Oz keep telling us that maunufacturers carry out all warrantee service visits.

So why is this enduser getting poor service ?

This is a good example why domestic a/c is a specialist activity.
No payment of bills for multiple return visits normal & loads of greef as well.Daikin is different, they only on sell to people they think worthy of it, so the installers are their agents and handle warranty. It's all part of daikin maintaining their reputation and limiting faults due to poor installation.
All the brands I dealt with were available at your local electrical retailer, so the manufacturers had to deal with warranty.
edit: They still all have a 5 year warranty though so It's strange that this system is "out of warranty"

murattahtali
04-04-2008, 05:28 PM
Thank you all for the interest you have shown in my problem. To clarify one thing, the dsipute came about due to an invoice we received for a service call that didn't fix the problem, and apparently outside the installation warranty of 12 months. I was upset that I was asked to pay for no service rendered when I was ignored about the symptoms that I described to the dealer. The standard answer was temperature differential, which wasn't a word complicated enough for me to be impressed and let go, so I ended up writing a somewhat corrosive but still polite letter to the dealer:)

Thanks to your comments, I will now contact the dealer again to as them to come and properly diagnose the proplem, which you all concur that it is likely a lack of refrigerant. The fact that the unit went too often into de-icing may also imply, as Iceman noted, a faulty sensor.

Declan, thanks for the code offer, but I will heed your mutual advice not to get into it for now, although as an engineer I am very much tempted:).

I will keep you guys posted. Thanks again for your support and assistance.

Cheers,

-Murat.

paul_h
04-04-2008, 06:00 PM
What? No, the system has a five year warranty like most in AU. Only the crappiest of installers offer one year warranty, which I assure you daikin installers shouldn't be in that group. Most good installers (ie refrigeration or specialist brick and mortar installers) cover more than one year.
If you suspect a leak, and the system was installed by a recognised daikin installer, go straight to daikin.
I worked for some seriously budget brands, and even I would have come out for a cheap a/c to at least tell you to call the installers back for free because it's their stuff up, or pay me now to fix.
I only ever charged customers money when it was a blatant installers stuff up, and we weren't the people that installed it. I would think that daikin dealers who did the installation would be responsible for all issues and not charge you for anything except no fault found.
If the 5 year warranty guy you call out says the fault is a refrigerant leak and the fault is with the installation people and gives you the same options, you can call the installers back for free. If they say no, just phone arctick and report them. I bet the threat of losing their licence and never being able to install again carries some weight. At the same time, the guys who carry out your five years waranty (should be the installers for daikin anyway), find a fault not related to install, then repairs wouldn't cost you anything.

edit: seriously, call daikin and ask who is resposible to supply you with five years warranty. If they say it's the installer, well 1)sucks that you seem to have a crap one, 2) you shouldn't have to pay anything to them, so denand your money back 3) maybe they can recommend you some decent techs.

murattahtali
06-05-2008, 07:08 AM
Thanks Paul_h,

I since contacted the installer, they were actually kind enough to come back and investigate the problem. It turns out that it was a pressure sensor all along. They replaced it yesterday and it all works fine now.

Thanks to all of you who commented.

Cheers,

-Murat.

Brian_UK
07-05-2008, 12:48 AM
Thanks for the update and glad to hear that the problem is resolved.