Max Refigerant Concentration Calculation

[applied]

i need to know what the australian standard is when calculationg the maximum concentration of refrigerant in relation to a VRV system. i know the kg/m3 and all that but i there will be exhausts running constantly in the rooms. does anyone know the calculation to use when X amount of l/s is extracted it will =X amount of kg/m3. PLEASE HELP IF YOU KNOW THIS ONE YOUR AN A/C GOD.
ok more info... 410a system has to be below 0.44kg/m3.
the room sizes are 3.5m x 5.5m x 2.7m. the refrigerant in the system is 14.2kg plus add refrig 12.7, total refrigerant 26.9kg
room volume= 52m3
26.9 divided by 52 = 0.51kg/m3 (over legal limit of 0.44)
but there are toilet exhausts running constantly with a door grill between the rooms and the toilets which has to acount for something but how many l/s of air will get me below the 0.44kg/m3???

[Josip]

Hi, applied :)

Welcome to RE forums...



i need to know what the australian standard is when calculationg the maximum concentration of refrigerant in relation to a VRV system. i know the kg/m3 and all that but i there will be exhausts running constantly in the rooms. does anyone know the calculation to use when X amount of l/s is extracted it will =X amount of kg/m3. PLEASE HELP IF YOU KNOW THIS ONE YOUR AN A/C GOD.



:confused::confused:..........Can you explain this a little more, please ;)

Best regards, Jopsip :)

[nike123]

Hi, applied :)

Welcome to RE forums...



:confused::confused:..........Can you explain this a little more, please ;)

Best regards, Jopsip :)

When you installing VRV/VRF systems in building, you must take in consideration situation when all refrigerant could escape from system in one room. If that room doesn't have sufficient volume or forced ventilation system, then people in that room could suffocate. Therefore lines and equipment of VRV/VRF system could not be installed in rooms who doesn't satisfy that conditions.

Here is MHI safety procedure for ensuring that:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1xyhfj0udjn

[chan]

Applied
My experiance tells me that the size of the evaporator will be dependant on the amount of extract air that will determin the heat load. The total number of evaporators will determin the size of the VRV condenser and the amount of refrigerant required will be calculated as normal for a VRV system.

[sparrow]

nike do you mean to keep supplying these links to porn sites? everytime I USE ONE OF YOUR LINKS I END UP THERE,LOL

[nike123]

nike do you mean to keep supplying these links to porn sites? everytime I USE ONE OF YOUR LINKS I END UP THERE,LOL

Sorry to inform you, but you have pests.:eek:
Try to get rid of them with "Adaware" and "Spyboot and Destroy". Instal and update him and then make full scan.

And, next time you surfing porn sites, do it with Firefox in safe mode.:D

[The Viking]

Sorry to inform you, but you have pests.:eek:
Try to get rid of them with "Adaware" and "Spyboot and Destroy". Instal and update him and then make full scan.

And, next time you surfing porn sites, do it with Firefox in safe mode.:D

Here speaks a man with experience!


:D:D:D

[nike123]

Here speaks a man with experience!


:D:D:D

Hey, these sites are half of internet, how could you not "occasionally" come across at them!:D:D
Safe surf is recommended!;)

[drew71]

does anyone know the calculation to use when X amount of l/s is extracted it will =X amount of kg/m3. .


I appologise in advance if I have missunderstood the question.
You cant express Flow Rate (volume) L/s as specific volume kg/m3.
You could express the specific volume as kg/1000 litres (1M3=1000litres)or grams per litre g/L then express as flow rate(mass) kg/sec, or flow rate (volume) L/sec.

I think I see what you are getting at, and its an interesting point, I'm going to look through Australian Standard 1668.2 again and see if I can find anything.

Cheers

Drew

[applied]

thanks mate i didnt heve the ventilation chart before! all sorted now you just saved me about $100,000 in equipment

[Refrigerologist]

In Europe iyou fan still install a system/fan coil in a room where a total loss of charge will be above the 0.44kg/m3 as long as a fixed refrigerant leak detector is installed within each space that the limit is exceeded. These have to be checked and calibrated annually I believe. Hope this helps

[nike123]

thanks mate i didnt heve the ventilation chart before! all sorted now you just saved me about $100,000 in equipment

Hm, send me a few beers by e-mail as provision!:D

[Refrigerologist]

Ignore the bad spelling in my previous thread. I have lost my reading glasses. Lets have another go!

If the system charge exceeds the room volume limit of 0.44kgs of R410A, then a fixed leak detector must be installed in that area. This should be tested and calibrated annually. This applies to europe, but I would not know about OZ!

[Josip]

Hi, nike123 :)


When you installing VRV/VRF systems in building, you must take in consideration situation when all refrigerant could escape from system in one room. If that room doesn't have sufficient volume or forced ventilation system, then people in that room could suffocate. Therefore lines and equipment of VRV/VRF system could not be installed in rooms who doesn't satisfy that conditions.

Here is MHI safety procedure for ensuring that:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1xyhfj0udjn

Thanks;)

with NH3 no such problems:D

Best regrds, Josip :)

[nike123]

Hi, nike123 :)



Thanks;)

with NH3 no such problems:D

Best regrds, Josip :)

I still don't see any headlines about ***** related deaths in buildings with VRV/VRF systems.;)

[frank]

The Maximum charge of refrigerant is defined in EN378, Annex C.2

For Group L1 refrigerants, (annex E) the practical limits are set based on a sudden loss of the total charge into the smallest space.

The attached file shows Daikin's interpretation of EN378 requirements
http://www.eatlime.com/download.lc?sid=4BA69B51-B8C5-FA9C-4F77-EA5D9A34E44A