Oil mixing problem - Help needed !

[Rio69]

Hi,
we have serious problem on one old R22 refrigeration system.
One of our service guy has made a serious mistake when changing oil in oil separator. He filled the system with polyester oil BSE170 (Bitzer oil for screw compressor) instead of mineral oil. After some time, filter starting to block, and we have found out that some strange supstance (like soap) was produced within pipes.
This is quite large system with 20 evaporators and 400 kg of R22, so I am very concerned.
Anyone has some similar expiriance, or knows how to clean the system?

Thanks in advance.

[Philip]

Based on some installation manuals and refrigeration refernce,POE oil are measible to R22 but HCFC are not advisable to use Mineral oil..

[The MG Pony]

well it is going to do some serious cleaning of your pipes!

POE is like detergent in the sense it will bring back all the long forgoten crud, and depending on the type it will form globuls. So from hearing of what others have said I exept that you could expect to be replacing allot of filters for the next while and then it should be fine and possibly much cleaner!

But again this is based on hearing of others storries, I'd wait for others with first hand experiance befor feeling relieved, this post is mostly to show there may well be hope!

[SteinarN]

That was an unfortunate mistake.

I dont have any experience with such a problem. If i am informed right then ester oil should be mixable in different ratios with mineral oil. Some years ago i read some paper regarding michibility between ester oils and mineral/syntetic oils. I think it actually was Bitzer which had investigated that michibility. In short it was something like that up to lets say 20% ester could me mixed with mineral and also up to 30% mineral could be mixed with ester, but it was not possible to mix 50/50.

As Philip wrote R22 is fully compatible with ester.

Also like The MG Pony wrote ester is a powerful detergent.

Is that "soap" like substance sticking to the pipes itself, or is it only blocking the filters?

If it's only found in the filters my guess would be to change the oil several times in order to get only one type of oil in the system and change the filters as necessary also. But is it best to change to ester oil or back to mineral? I'm not sure. One thing to be aware of with ester is that o-rings in solenoid valves and other places can develop a leak.

As i said, i havent any experience with such large systems. But this is my best guess.

[SteinarN]

How much wrong oil was filled in compared to the oil already in the system?

[The Viking]

The problem is unlikely to be the oil mixture per se...

Back in my youth, I was involved in a lot of conversions (R12 - R134a and R502 - Blimey, I forgotten. HELP, I'm getting old). The standard was to do multiple oil changes (where POE was the fresh oil) over a period of up to 6 months prior to the exchanging of gas.

We experienced this white/yellow gooey substance in about 10% of the systems.
After further investigation, we found that these machines had a high moisture content.

As old fashioned refrigerant and mineral oil are quite tolerant of moisture, the systems could have run for years with moisture in them. But add a bit of highly hygroscopic POE and you get problems.

Obviously the "best" option would be to reclaim the system, clean the pipework and condensor/evaporator, change the oil and recharge with fresh refrigerant.
But I bet your boss wouldn't like that.

The other option, that I can see, is to install high capacity driers and then do frequent driers and oil changes untill the system is cleaned.

[Chunk]

Hi,
we have serious problem on one old R22 refrigeration system.
One of our service guy has made a serious mistake when changing oil in oil separator. He filled the system with polyester oil BSE170 (Bitzer oil for screw compressor) instead of mineral oil. After some time, filter starting to block, and we have found out that some strange supstance (like soap) was produced within pipes.
This is quite large system with 20 evaporators and 400 kg of R22, so I am very concerned.
Anyone has some similar expiriance, or knows how to clean the system?

Thanks in advance.

Hi.Yes i`ve done it myself at a sainsburys site.I put 20 litres of screw pack oil into shell sd pack and lost two bitzer comps after 3 days.What Steinern said about doing a lot of oil changes is the only way of clearing this problem but it will take a few attempts. Chunk.

[powell]

Hi,
we have serious problem on one old R22 refrigeration system.
One of our service guy has made a serious mistake when changing oil in oil separator. He filled the system with polyester oil BSE170 (Bitzer oil for screw compressor) instead of mineral oil. After some time, filter starting to block, and we have found out that some strange supstance (like soap) was produced within pipes.

Interesting situating.

First, what brand and type of compressors do you have? I read this as if you don't have screw compressors.

POE is backward compatible with most refrigerants with the exception of R-12 when referring to Copelands specifications.

One difference is that the POE oil he used is 170 viscosity and Copeland uses 150 viscosity.

Copeland states this:


POE’s

must be used if HFC refrigerants are used in the system. They are also acceptable for use with any of
the traditional refrigerants or interim blends and are compatible with mineral oils. They can therefore be

mixed with mineral oils when used in systems with CFC or HCFC refrigerants. These lubricants are compatible with one another and can be mixed.


Here is the link to this bulletin:


Section 17, #17-1248
http://www.hvacrinfo.com/ae_index.htm


Also check out Section 26, #93-11R14

[Rio69]

How much wrong oil was filled in compared to the oil already in the system?

40 liters of new oil was filled in oil separator. No one knows how much of mineral oil was left in the system. Since it is large system, significant amount can left in risers and evaporators.

[Rio69]

Interesting situating.

First, what brand and type of compressors do you have? I read this as if you don't have screw compressors.

POE is backward compatible with most refrigerants with the exception of R-12 when referring to Copelands specifications.

One difference is that the POE oil he used is 170 viscosity and Copeland uses 150 viscosity.

Copeland states this:


POE’s

must be used if HFC refrigerants are used in the system. They are also acceptable for use with any of
the traditional refrigerants or interim blends and are compatible with mineral oils. They can therefore be

mixed with mineral oils when used in systems with CFC or HCFC refrigerants. These lubricants are compatible with one another and can be mixed.


Here is the link to this bulletin:


Also check out Section 26, #93-11R14


Screw compressors are Bitzer HSK6461-60.
THNX

[The MG Pony]

I think you'll be fine then, just going to end up with clean pipes and some minimal gunk that the filters should catch.

[powell]

Rio69,

Here's a link to their support services. You can always give them a call concerning your situation.

http://www.bitzer.de/service/support.php