Mitsubishi ecodan Heatpump Boiler

[sinewave]

Anyone had any experience of these or has speced one yet.


Might be interested in instaling one in my own house! :D

[refaircon]

i have put one of these in on a bc box system to run a under floor heating system
mitsi were a bit unsure of it s control side

[Electrocoolman]

Have you seen the literature on the mitsubishi website?....its makes interesting reading.

All the Japanese manufacturers are producing similar offerings, some on R410 and some on R744 (CO2)....they are, as usual, leading the market.

I would like to see one in action and there are some very interesting principles, but I still have reservations on the overall economics of these compared to a boiler. They say that they cost about the same as a modern boiler to install, but I would expect a boiler to last some 15 years. A compressor going down in one of these units would severely test the economic equation!

Now what I WOULD like to see is an Airconditioning system that has a heat reclaim exchanger built in....In summer you could get the majority of your hot water for free.

[Thermatech]

There really should be no reason for any commercial building with any dx air conditioning to have boilers providing hot water during summer time.
Retro fit desuperheater to comp discharge to supply free hot water.
At least Mitsubishi electric are doing heat pump boilers which can be fitted like any other indoor unit to the R2 City Multi heat recovery system. If the system is in cooling only mode then you get free hot water. If the system is heating then you still get hot water from outside air heat pump cycle.
There are 1000's of City Multi systems installed in the uk over the last 16 years.
So why not retro fit to all of them & scrap the boilers ???

Think of all the buildings you work in & all the computer room cooling dx systems throwing vast quanties of heat away 24/7 !!!

I was on a site the other day,,, massive office block about 100 City Multi indoor units, about 20 cooling only outdoor units. Boilers & perimiter radiator heating system. January & out side ambient less than 5 deg C.Been installed obout 8 years.

You know what is going to follow dont you.

Heating system on, radiators red hot, City Multi systems running like the clappers to cool offices which were being heated by the radiators.

Customer admitted this was a waist of energy & have submitted proposals to upgrade to energy efficent system but no funds available for this financial year.

On the domestic front we should see the CO2 heat pump water heaters coming to europe soon which should be interesting, but it would be good to get some feed back form the japanese service engineers who have been doing maintenance on these things for the last 6 or 7 years.

[Lc_shi]

interesing topic but there are not good study report on that. Many article says it's saving energy but why it's not used widely.

[sinewave]

Yes I have seen the literature on the website and we've been sent the bumf direct from Mitsi in Manchester as one of their 'Approved Installers'.

I'm just waiting on a reply from an email I've sent to their local Sales Rep with more info and costings etc.



Maybe I could skank a subsidised install in return for use of my home as a example! :D

[davej]

Hi refaircon, can i ask what water flow temps were you getting from the unit?

[Chris Burton]

Hi guys, just in the process of installing Daikin Altherma system, i will keep you posted on how it's going.

[techguy]

Now what I WOULD like to see is an Airconditioning system that has a heat reclaim exchanger built in....In summer you could get the majority of your hot water for free.[/QUOTE]

SANYO GHP System all 2 pipe outdoors over 28KW can supply hotwater at 75 degrees C in cooling mode and heating mode when external ambient is above 10 degrees C

Have a look at one might make u very happy

TG

[sinewave]

The reason I was look at the ecodan is there is no Gas where I live and Oil has gone through the roof. I'm going to replaceing the whole central heating and water system anyway so now is a good time for a change.

However there seems to be a problem in that I need the 14kW unit which Mitsi are still developing so it looks like I'll have to look at alternatives as I need it sorted really before the end of summer.

Any other ideas?

[The Viking]

There are lots of different options if you search in the Nordic or Swiss markets.

THIS (http://www.octopus.tm/eng/index.htm) is an interesting option.

Otherwise you got more traditional stuff like THIS (http://www.nibe.com/default_eng.asp), THIS (http://www.euronom.se/159_Sitemap), or THAT (http://www.ctcvarme.se/)

Remember, abroad this type of heatpumps is old trusted technology. And if you are redesigning the whole lot you will be able to drop the flow temps, thus giving you more options for the heatpump.


Good hunting.

[frank]

The reason I was look at the ecodan is there is no Gas where I live and Oil has gone through the roof. I'm going to replaceing the whole central heating and water system anyway so now is a good time for a change.

However there seems to be a problem in that I need the 14kW unit which Mitsi are still developing so it looks like I'll have to look at alternatives as I need it sorted really before the end of summer.

Any other ideas?

Does your estimate of 14kw include the hot water?

the Daikin Altherma might be of interest as these go up to 12 kw. Do your heat loss calcs based on 40w/m2, this ignores the hot water storage but it is how to size for the Altherma.
The one I've just installed seems to be the dogs dangly bits and I wish now that I hadn't just replaced my old gas fired boiler with a new combi unit. :(

[sinewave]

To be honest Frank I've not sized it my self, I got Mitsi Tech Engineer out from Manchester to have a look.

They currently have the 9kW unit installed at their MD's 3/4 Deb Gaff Down Souff and it does the Heating & the Water with a pressurised Heat Store.

Yes the flow temps are lower at a max of 55 degrees which means oversized Rads or Underfloor heating.

Not heard of the Daikin alternative will have to have a look but to be honest I'm becomming a bit dispondent with the whole idea and may just plumb for LPG anyway!

[sinewave]

Anyone else got any experience with the Daikin unit or Mitsi?

[krychek]

Ecodan range is quite small, DAikin offer wider range from 5 - 16kw.

Also Mitsi uses Gledhill for the bolier side (ewwww) and the controls are by Graslin (very awkward to use).

THe ecodan as far as i am aware utilises outside water connections, hence glycol will be required - which is going to affect COP's, plus maybe even a risk of freezing if not enough glycol used.

Third Large and heavier than Altherma outside unit as Altherm utilises an internal Box housing pump, heat exchanger and expansion vessel which is why you dont need glycol.....

COP's i believe based on same flow and return temps are probaby 10 - 20 % better.

Both units from respected Manufacturers, so i suppose its down to the ususal technical factors and personal choice.

Hope this helps.