new size of refrigerator what is the sizes of coils

[jahangir.ahmad]

dear everyone,

i'm recently joining a domestic household manufacturing company my first project is to make a
new refrigerator of following size

AMBIANT TEMP=43c

FRZ TEMP REQUIRED =-24c

REFTEMP REQUIRED=01cto 4c

TOTAL HEIGHT OF REFRIGERATOR IS =1467mm

WIDTH=560mm

DEPTH=660mm

REF SIDE =967mm

FRZ SIDE=500mm

now please tell me the following size

lenght of frz evaportor+dia=

lenght of Ref evaportor+dia=

lenght of CONDENSOR+dia+TYPE=

lenght of CAPILLARY TUBE+dia=

COMPRESSOR HOURSE POWER=
AND TELL ME HOW TO CALCULATE THE BTU/hr
please reply me as soon as possible:confused::confused::confused::confused:

JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[Brian_UK]

How much are you going to be paying us for preparing your design work from which you will be making more money ?

Your company should provide you with sufficient information to enable you to build the machine.

If they expect you to design it then you need to attend a college course to learn refrigeration technology.

[jahangir.ahmad]

THANKS A LOT FOR UR COOL ADVISE
I THINK MR.BRAIN UK U HAVE NO KNOWLDGE ABOUT DESIGNING
IF U DON'T HAVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT DON'T Crestfallening me

MY REQUEST TO ALL OF THE ENGINEERS of this website PLEASE HELP MY REGARDING DESIGNING SEND ME THE THUMB RULE ALSO
THANKS AND BEST REGRADS

JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[The MG Pony]

He does indeed have much Knowledge, Hell I'm not even don my course and I can do this!

But ok heres some help down load these programes:

Cool Pack - Does cycle analisys and simulation
Calc right - Determins box load and heat gain
DanCap - Assists in determining Cappilery length

You must find them as I'm late as is they are all floating around the forum.

[US Iceman]

MY REQUEST TO ALL OF THE ENGINEERS of this website PLEASE HELP MY REGARDING DESIGNING SEND ME THE THUMB RULE ALSO


Sorry. This is a complete design issue you have to resolve yourself. We could spend months working on this project for you, when you should be doing the work yourself.:o

Rules of thumb should NEVER be used for actual design processes or applications of systems. This is the improper way to design anything.

I'm not sure what you were expecting, but it is more than we can do.

[Andy W]

Remind me not to buy one of your fridges with an operational fridge temp of up to 10oC, I prefer my food maintained below 5oC thanks very much, extra cold Guinness at 10oC, youre having a laugh.

[jahangir.ahmad]

ok sir
plz tell me how to find a BTU/hr
thanks

[nike123]

ok sir
plz tell me how to find a BTU/hr
thanks

In fact, you are kidding with us, isn't it?:rolleyes:

[mallmk13]

ahmad !

No one is obliged to help you, the fact that u are rude and arrogant I don’t thing your going far with this kind of attitude, I don’t know those guys, I have never met them before but I really appreciate what they have done I advise you go to college and gain the basic knowledge I am pretty sure you will succeed in the future.

The forum is to exchange ideas and giving and receiving. is not business proposes.

mallmk13

[The MG Pony]

As Mr.Mallmk13 Has said, I think you need to do some learning, as designing a fridge is easy (Or seems to be) How ever it is verry labour intensive, you must coralate allot of data, local ambient trends, how hot is the average summer how cold the average winter, what is the average home temp.

Then with that data you must figure out heat ingress to the box with a given insulation thickenes.

Frankly no one is going to do that work for you unless they are paid, it is rather dim-witted to think any one would! I gave you a list of programs that will substantialy help you but yet again it is UP TO YOU to do your own work, and to do it correctly.

Step one: Get data and local ambient trends
Step two: Calculate out heat gain with a chosen insulation type and thickeness
Step three: Design evap to meet heat gain
Step four: Choose compressor that will do that with given refrigerant
5: Match condencer to give good sub cooling during the hottest day
6: size cap tube to meet given load on evap

for step 7 its going to cost you as I like my coffe! (And if you didn't figure it out 6 is the last step)

[The MG Pony]

Oh on a side note above 4c bacteria growth goes up by 10 fold, as in the stuff starts to rott meat starts to stink and people start to hunt you down!

3.5C fridge turns on, 1.5C fridge turns off or 4-1 but NEVER 5c most certaintly NEVER NEVER 10c

[Andy W]

Reply edited.

Andy, please accept our apologies for the previous post. It has no place here and has been deleted.

[jahangir.ahmad]

thanks a lot to
MR.MG PONY ,
MR.ICEMAN,
MR.MALLMK13
I UNDERSTAND IT NOW AFTER THIS IM RESEARCH ON MY ANOTHERE REFRIGERATOR TO FIND THE ANS OF MY QUESTION
WHEN I'M ABLE TO DESIGN A NEW REFRIGERATOT I WILL INFORM TO U ALL
PRAY FOR ME
THANKS A LOT
WE ALWAYS IN COMMUNICATION
THANKS AND BEST REGRADS


JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[jahangir.ahmad]

<p>sorry Mr.andy I 'm Angry On U </p>
<p>sorry Again </p>
<p>please Don't Mind It </p>
<p>thanks And Best Regrads </p>
<p>jahangir Ahmad Khan </p>
<p>lahore Pakistan </p>

[jahangir.ahmad]

<P>MR ANDY REPLY ME </P>
<P>IF U FORGIVE ME </P>
<P>AND THANKS TO MR. BRAIN UK TO RELISE ME TO APPOLOGIZE </P>
<P>THANKS </P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>

[jahangir.ahmad]

mr .brain PLEASE; TELL ME ANY RELETED BOOK THAT CAN HELP ME IN DESIGNING TELL ME THE NAME OF BOOK I CAN PURCHASE IT FROM PAKISTAN AND THAT BOOK EASILY AVAILABLE IN PAKISTAN
THANKS
JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[Josip]

Hi, jahangir.ahmad :)


mr .brain PLEASE; TELL ME ANY RELETED BOOK THAT CAN HELP ME IN DESIGNING TELL ME THE NAME OF BOOK I CAN PURCHASE IT FROM PAKISTAN AND THAT BOOK EASILY AVAILABLE IN PAKISTAN
THANKS
JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

Unfortunately it is not easy to tell you about some good book (about design) also available in Pakistan, but you can search RE forums and find out a lot of links to some good free books, software what you can download for free and then start with learning how to...;)........here are some links...

a lot to read and learn.....from basic to expert level...
http://www.danfoss.com/BusinessAreas/RefrigerationAndAirConditioning/EducationAndTraining/


http://www.industrialpress.com/en/po...0-HVACDemo.pdf (http://www.industrialpress.com/en/portals/0/Books/31630/9780831131630-HVACDemo.pdf)
http://www.refrigerants.com/catalog.pdf
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=re...iz-OeJ76LOT4YQ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=44&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.energyefficiencyasia.org%2Fdocs%2Fee_modules%2FRefrigeration%2520and%2520Air%25 20Conditioning.pdf&ei=cnOkR5WGC4zUwQGni5zdAg&usg=AFQjCNGpgdsUUINnniPXi-XAouZgs-0PNg&sig2=st24p2kziz-OeJ76LOT4YQ)
http://st-support-cooling-electronic...r.ptchart2.pdf (http://st-support-cooling-electronics.web.cern.ch/st-support-cooling-electronics/CWGWeb/Refr.ptchart2.pdf)
http://www.dupont.com/suva/emea/products/index.html
http://www.epatest.com/q_ref_numbering_system.html

and many others.....

http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6431

with many useful documents...


Believe me that is the best way for you to learn something.....you are a young man wanting to learn a lot of things immediately, but that is not possible....everything in the nature need some time to mature, it is the same with us and with our knowledge....

Best regards, Josip :)

[The MG Pony]

Josip has said it best, down load the programs I have listed, they will greatly assist you!

And if insulation is cheap in your part of the world I sujest using good thick insulation as this will improve running costs!

[jahangir.ahmad]

thanks a lot Mr. josip i have no words to say thanks
if i'm succeed in my project i 'll inform u
thank u very much


and also thanks to
MR.MG PONY ,

MR.ICEMAN,

MR.MALLMK13

MR.BRAIN UK

FOR SUCH A NICE GUIDENES
I'M ALWAYS THANKSFUL TO U ALL


JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[jahangir.ahmad]

hiiiiii mr andy w

[jahangir.ahmad]

r u there ?????????
reply me

[jahangir.ahmad]

hi every one
now my research becoming complete
thanks to all
specially mr josip
mr. josip can u send me more web sites regarding designing
thanks
a lot
jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan

[jahangir.ahmad]

hi Mr. josip
I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS
RECENTLY OIM STUDTY THE COP IM CONFUESED ABOUT COP

COP

Carnot = Te / (Tc - Te)

how could i find these values
according to Te is evaportor temp
Tc = condensor temp
next question is


COP =Cooling effect (kW)/
Power input to compressor (kW)

cooling effect in KW ???????
HOW TO CONVERD temp TO IN KW
PLEASE ANS ME

THANKS
JAHANGIR.AHMAD
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[jahangir.ahmad]

hi every one

i have one more question ???

i'm read example in a book
determine the cop of package chiller

capcity=28.1tons
power in put 25.1KW

according to book

capcity=28.1*12000=337200BTU/hr

then
power input=25.1KW*3410=85,590BTU/hr

whats this 3410????????
now
COP=refrigeration capacity/power input
337,200/85,590=3.94

COP=3.94

IF THE COP 3.94WHATS THE UNIT OF COP???? WHAT I'M SAYING THAT 3.94 IS?????


THANKS
JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[nike123]

COP is unitless. It is ratio, and ratio doesn't have unit.

3410 (actualy 3.409,51) is number of BTU compared with 1 kW

[jahangir.ahmad]

MR.NIKE 123

IF THE COP 3.94WHATS THE UNIT OF COP???? WHAT I'M SAYING THAT 3.94 IS?????
HOW IS HELP ME THIS IS PERFORMANCE
AND I COULD MAKE IT MORE EFFEICENT ?????

[dogma]

jahangir.ahmad,

If I were in your posistion I would look at one of your companies existing products, Talk to the component manufacturers and have a blank cabinet manufactured to work out how best to fit the components. If your company had 3D inventor it will make the job easier.

I'm guessing it's a frost free not a cyclic your working on? If so it's mainly the air flow you may have problems with. Controlling the air movement for maximum effiecency is sometimes overlooked with some designs.

I'm guessing the company would prefer to use existing coils and components to maximise your buying power?

COP is the ratio basically for power in to the work done by the unit.

[jahangir.ahmad]

Mr.nike 123

Please Read The # 23 About Cop
Ans Me #23 Thread
Thanks
Jahangir Ahmad Khan
Lahore Pakistan

[The MG Pony]

COP is a ratio, like 3:1, there is no unit after it, it is un-like length or such messures.

1mm
1Km
3:1 gear ratio
3:2 COP

Understand?



Coils & Dimentions: Once you have a heat load, and a time frame to which the heat must be moved, you select an evaporator that is all ready built that will match your specifications the closest. If speed is not important you can use gravity plate (pressed aluminium evaporator) Cheap, no moving parts, simple, compact.

Cons are, easy to damage by user, high deltas per given surface area, requiers defrosting (Usualy manual but could be don via electric or hot gas albiet uncommon).

Some of these issues can be minimized by care full placement and design, such as the dammage issue by hiding & protecting it via some sort of gard. It is the same with the condencer.

[jahangir.ahmad]

dear Mr. dogma
ALL THESE COMPONENTS WE IMPORT CONDENSOR EVAPORTOR ,CAPILLARY TUBE COMPRESSOR ALMOST ALL THE COMPONENETS FROM CHINA
I KNOW THAT I HAVE TO MAKE A NEW FRIDGE
BUT FIRST I 'M CHECK THAT DID MY OLD FRIDGE WORKINK GOOOD OR NOT

PLEASE SEND ME T-S DIAGRAM IF U HAVE


JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[The MG Pony]

Dear sir, have you downloaded cool pack as of yet? This fine free program has all such things within it, T-S, P-h, Cycle simulation, every thing one will need for such a project!

[nike123]

hi Mr. josip
I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS
RECENTLY OIM STUDTY THE COP IM CONFUESED ABOUT COP

COP

Carnot = Te / (Tc - Te)

how could i find these values

according to Te is evaportor temp
Tc = condensor temp
next question is


COP =Cooling effect (kW)/
Power input to compressor (kW)

cooling effect in KW ???????
HOW TO CONVERD temp TO IN KW
PLEASE ANS ME

THANKS
JAHANGIR.AHMAD
LAHORE PAKISTAN




Cooling effect of compressor in your text is actualy cooling capacity of compressor achieved by moving certain amount of refrigerant with certain evaporation and condensation temperature and could be found in catalog data of compressor.
In order to make work required for moving that refrigerant at that same evaporation and condensation temperatures, compressor motor need power which also could be found in catalog data of compressor.

Relation of refrigeration capacity expressed as cooling effect or cooling capacity in kW (or BTU or Tons of refrigeration), and
power consumed from motor to make work of compressor and expressed as power input of compressor in kW (or HP), is COP (coefficient of performance), and it tell us how efficient compressor (or system) it is.

If one compressor need 1 kWh of electric energy to produce cooling effect of 3 kWh than his COP is 3.

If other compressor ned 1 kWh of electric energy to produce cooling effect of 4 kWh than his COP is 4, and he is more efficient than other with COP of 3.

So one compressor have two power figures in same time,
one is consumed electrical power for compressor work and other is cooling power.

[jahangir.ahmad]

hi every one

im recently test my refrigerator
refrigerator ice making capcity is 9kg water per day
ambiant temp 43c
now i want a refrigerator ice making capacity is 9kg water per day

after 856min

temp dis charge =79.5c
temp suction= 40.5c
temp in side frz cabinet =-24.3c
temp out side body =55.8c
foaming thickness(insulation)55mm frz 40ref

comp input 2.27KW

did my refrigerator works good or no
if not how could i make them better
give ur remarks
thanks
jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan

[jahangir.ahmad]

attention please
i askig a question to u all in last thread
say some thing about it
specially
MR. MG pony
MR BRAIN_UK
MR.DOGMA
MR.NIKE123
MR.JOSIP
MR.ICEMAN
AND
MR.ANDY W
THANKS
ANS ME LAST THREAD
THANKS A LOT FOR URS COOL ADVISE IN ADVANCE
JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHORE PAKISTAN

[The MG Pony]

hi every one

im recently test my refrigerator
refrigerator ice making capcity is 9kg water per day
ambiant temp 43c
now i want a refrigerator ice making capacity is 9kg water per day

after 856min

temp dis charge =79.5c
temp suction= 40.5c
temp in side frz cabinet =-24.3c
temp out side body =55.8c
foaming thickness(insulation)55mm frz 40ref

comp input 2.27KW

did my refrigerator works good or no
if not how could i make them better
give ur remarks
thanks
jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan


Being your hot ambient you can over size the condencer by 150% & aim for a coil with a TD of 10. Make sure to use good insulation on the suction line as your Suction gas is rather hot.

To do this will improve system, and to further improve it for times of cold weather use a fan cycling system or a pressur modulated Veriable frequancy drive for the fan

[nike123]

hi every one

im recently test my refrigerator
refrigerator ice making capcity is 9kg water per day
ambiant temp 43c
now i want a refrigerator ice making capacity is 9kg water per day

I am not sure that you mean what are you saying here.
To me, it sounds like that your "refrigerator" consumes 9l of water to make 9 kg of ice in 24 hours (i suppose that is some kind of ice maker) at ambient temperature of 43°C.
At the same time you said that you want a refrigerator ice making capacity is 9kg water (you mean ice?) per day.

Therefore, you got what you want. At least, that is what are you saying here.



after 856min Do you mean, after 14hours and 16min?




temp suction= 40.5cThis reading make no sense to me, if it refers to temperature of pipe at compressor inlet!
That is 64,8K of total superheat.


temp in side frz cabinet =-24.3cThat depend on what are you goal temperature (it could be -12°C,-18°C,-24°C or -25°C)


temp out side body =55.8c I am confused here, if temperature inside the "refrigerator" (it is in quotes because I don't know what it is exactly) is -24,3°C than body of refrigerator should be at least near ambient temperature or few degrees below, depending on isolation of body.
Describe that "refrigerator" (composition, dimensions compartments, separations etc..., or refer to already known product make and model).



comp input 2.27KW
What is the compressor manufacture and model no.
What refrigerant it is in, and what are the suction and condensation pressure and/or SST/SCT (saturation suction temperature/saturation condensation temperature)


did my refrigerator works good or no Answer these questions, and tell us what COP or energy label you are considering as your goal.
http://tinyurl.com/2qt6g8

[jahangir.ahmad]

hello`
MR NIKE 123 ,AND MG PONY,
FIRST OF ALL THANKS MA LOT TO MAKING INTREST IT

1.FIRST OF ALL MY GOAL IS THAT AT AMBIENT TEMP 43c MY REFRIGERATOR REACH THE TENP AT FRZ SIDE -24.3c WITH IN 300MIN (5HOURS) WITH LOAD A SIMPLE WATER 1.5 KG


2.I'M INSTALL A SENSOR IN SUCTION LINE


INSULTION FRZ SIDE 55mm thickness

3. DANFOSS COMPRESSOR NL 8.4FT
REFRIGERANT R134a WE ARE USING
REFRIGERATOR MODEL HAIER HRF-270 DIRECT COOL USING IN PAKISTAN BECAUSE HIGH AMBIENT TEMP (NOT USING NO FROST )

4.


What is the compressor manufacture and model no.
What refrigerant it is in, and what are the suction and condensation pressure and/or SST/SCT (saturation suction temperature/saturation condensation temperature)

SUCTION PRESSURE= 14.5PSI

DISCHARGE PRESSURE= 210-220PSI

SUCTION TEMP =40 TO 43C(THROUGH OUT THE TESTING)



DISCHARGE TEMP =75TO 80c (THROUGH OUT THE TESTING)


Describe that "refrigerator" (composition, dimensions compartments, separations etc..., or refer to already known product make and model).


5.TWO DOOR REFRIGERATOR FRZ UP MOUNTED for more in detaile see the first thread

thanks for reply
i'm waiting for ur brillint mind ans

thanks



jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan

[The MG Pony]

where is suction temp being messured at? When I calculate it you are getting 50 degrees of SH.

14psi= -10.5c which is giving 50 degrees super heat!

Suction temp should be read 15.25cm (6") from the compressor.

I'm thinking you will most certainly have to well insulate your suction line, this will help reduce the tempriture of your discharge gas.

[monkey spanners]

Is the capiliary run inside the suction line as is often the case with domestic refrigerators? If it is i think this will effect your suction superheat measurements, making them appear higher than they are.

Jon

[jahangir.ahmad]

[quote=The MG Pony;96997]Being your hot ambient you can over size the condencer by 150% & aim for a coil with a TD of 10. Make sure to use good insulation on the suction line as your Suction gas is rather hot.


i can't understand it can u explain it in details :(:(:confused::confused::confused:

thanks
jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan

[The MG Pony]

[quote=The MG Pony;96997]Being your hot ambient you can over size the condencer by 150% & aim for a coil with a TD of 10. Make sure to use good insulation on the suction line as your Suction gas is rather hot.


i can't understand it can u explain it in details :(:(:confused::confused::confused:

thanks
jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan

Lets say you need a 400W coil for condencer, you'd do this: 400W * 135% or (150%) = 540W total condencer to ensure good efficiency.

[jahangir.ahmad]

Mr MG pony

i can't under stand 400W
MY CONDENSOR LENGHT IS 36.39 FEET AND NATURAL DRAFT BENDAY TUBETYPE CONDENSOR
HOW CAN I FIND 400W COIL CONDENSOR ???????????

THANKS
JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN

[The MG Pony]

400 watt was a made up example to illistrate the calculation.

(Total heat taken in from evaporator + Heat rejected by compressor) * 1.35 = total condencer.

[jahangir.ahmad]

Hi Mr.Mg pony Plzzzzzzzzzzzz Tell Me In Details
Plzzzzzz


I'm Very ThanksFul For THIS Regards

Thanks

Jahangir Ahmad Khan
Lahore Pakistan

[The MG Pony]

I am just giving you a formula, it is you who must then calculate it out, that only you can do.

[jahangir.ahmad]

hi MR.M G PONY


(Total heat taken in from evaporator + Heat rejected by compressor) * 1.35 = total condencer.

TELL ME WHAT IS 1.35 ????????


AND WHAT IS THE UNIT OF TO BUY A CONDENSOR (HP OR WATT OR BTU/HR )OR OTHER

ANS ME
THANKS
JAHANGIR AHMAD KHAN
LAHRE PAKISTAN

[The MG Pony]

1.35 is the multiplier, this gives you a safety factor for unusualy hot weather, and it helps to cool the compressor as they dump the heat into the refrigerant gass.

As for the unit, can be watt or BTU, pick one.

[jahangir.ahmad]

hi MR.MG pony,

ok thanks
now one more question
if i apply this in condensor and what is the formula in evaporator 1.35 is divide
tell me total

thanks
jahangir ahmad khan
lahore pakistan

[The MG Pony]

there is non for the evap, just the condencer, the evap is determined based on load @ opperating temp & RH.