Any feedback on the Testo refrigeration analyser?

[Saturated]

I saw an advert in a refrigeration magazine showing the 560-1 refrigeration analyser and looked it up on the Testo website. Looking like a large modern multi-meter with guage lines on the base, it's stated capabilities are fairly impressive. 30 refrigerants stored in its memory (free download for more), software pack to log, graph and print out data, recieve inputs from a wireless temp probe 20m away, evacuation measurement (with evaporation temp of water calculated with it), with an ammonia version available as well.

I'm not involved with Testo in any way and am not trying to sell them, just want to know if anyone has one and is it as good as they say it is. I was sceptical about it being suitable for field work but it says it's shock proof and splash proof :rolleyes:. Also I was wondering if I'd have to re mortgage the house to get one:eek:. I've been waiting for a realistic replacement for the bourdon tube guage.

[nike123]

Go on this forum ( http://hvacprotech.forumwise.com/ ).
There you have lot of comments about Testo and simmilar instruments. Consider also Digi-cool DRSA 1200

[Saturated]

Thanks nike123. I've done a little digging and found that the radio frequency for the remote touch probe hasn't been allowed in Australia and tooling will cost too much for Testo to Make a batch just for us.

Apparantly the military use that frequency, but I think it's a bit pedantic to think that a tool with a 20m range would cause that much of a problem. I suppose it would also be a bit of a bugger if you were fixing a fridge near a base somewhere and a missile changed course towards you!

[absolute-zero]

Yep just like Nike said, HVAC ProTech also has field evaluation programs for these types of digital gauges, definetly worth taking a look at if your interested in these types of tools. The Digicool DSRA 1200 is definetly worth looking at, based on some of the field evaluations I have read.

A-Z

[marc5180]

Can these not be bought in the Uk becasue i can't find a site that sells them.:(

[absolute-zero]

Can these not be bought in the Uk becasue i can't find a site that sells them.:(

I will find out for you, Just so you know ritchie Jellow jacket sells the DRSA 1200, most do not stock for whatever reason but can order it special for you if you have difficulties in finding them.

How ever i will report back whith what my buddies here tell me for your situation.

A-Z

[absolute-zero]

That did not take that long to find, just follow links for the contact info on the DSRA 1200.:)

http://reefertek.com/tektalk/index.php/topic,22.0.html

A-Z

[HVACGod]

Saturated

There are three models in the Testo 500 Series RSA lineup. The 523, the 556 and the 560. Each model signifying significant increases in features as well as cost. The 523 is by Testo's own declaration intended by design to be primarily directed at the residential segment of the market.

The second generation 523 has been revised once since it's first release to address a potential issue with refrigerant loss at the hose connection ports - it is briefly mentioned in the lower portion of this Article: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/manifold-gauges-%ce%a6the-definitive-guide-excerpt/ FieldTest Evaluations conducted on another site revealed the 523 had significant lag time in response/refresh updates - significant enough to render the 523 as it was tested to be inadequate for at least the transport segment of the trade. This has since been corrected in the form of a firmware update that is being offered at no cost by Testo - applicable only to the second generation 523 - an excerpt and video clip demonstarting the difference in update rates has been published here: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/manifold-gauges-%ce%a6the-definitive-guide-excerpt/

The second generation 523 has the capability to record the parameters that the 523 are able to measure via interface with an IR thermographic printer - this feature was designed into the second generation in lieu of the data logging capability of the first generation 523 - which serves as another indication that the 523 is in fact intended as a primarily residential instrument.

The next step up in the 500 series is the 556, which is where we pick up the wireless and datalogging capabilities that were omitted from the original 523. Very few parameters that the 556 cannot acquire and record data on - with the exception of micron level vacuum indication- which as we all know is questionable when located at the manifold anyway -although the vacuum sensor utilized by Testo is exceptionally high quality [isolated piezo - isolated by stainless steel and and incompressible silicon oil, as a hydraulic transfer medium], virtually eliminating contamination by oil or anything else in the system - it's accuracy, as a result of it's location is questionable. So the only difference between the 556 and the 560 then is that the 560 can indicate micron level vacuum indication while the 523 and 556 cannot. This Article: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/testo%c2%ae-556-feature-key/ provides a feature key for the 556. There are many, many additional digital manifold gauge Articles located here: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/ aside form those I have included here.

I own the 523, 556, the Digi-Cool 1100 and 1200 and have extensive experience with other digital sets as well. Relevant to quality instruments these two OEM's are the big dogs. The J/B DM-2, the Mastercool and the Refco Digimon which I have seen reference to throughout these boards do not have the same designed in universal applicability - relevant to being practical for all segments of the trade. Transducer protection being one of the key problems that the lower end OEM's have - transducers on digital gauges are very sensitive to EMI - to the extent that excessive EMI will damage the transducers rendering the sets damaged and useless. The Testo and the Digi-Cool design in protection for their transducers from EMI.

Probably could add more but I'm not trying to sound like a commercial [advert] here.

[thermo prince]

HVACGod, very nice report, thank you for that.

So , in summary , which one would you recommend for all round value for money - sufficient features but not too many bells & whistles, catering for 134a, 404a, 407c (and perhaps 410a) , rugged and robust for transport as well as 'static' HVACR.

What kind of $$$ does your best pick go for ?

thanks again
T-P

[HVACGod]

HVACGod, very nice report, thank you for that.

My pleasure completely T-P. Happy I have the experience with them to be of assistance.

So , in summary , which one would you recommend for all round value for money - sufficient features but not too many bells & whistles, catering for 134a, 404a, 407c (and perhaps 410a) , rugged and robust for transport as well as 'static' HVACR.

Based on those criteria alone definitely the Digi-Cool 1200. As noted in my OP the 523 is by Testo's own declaration intended for residential applications. The Digi-Cool is compatible across the board - out of the box. Residential, commercial, marine, institutional and transport applications. While the learning curve is minimal with the 523 and to a lesser degree the 556 - the Digi-Cool 1200 requires essentially none, it is very intuitive. And let's not forget the crown jewel, if you will - the exclusive Dynamic Offset Graph that is the flagship feature of the DC brand - described briefly here: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2007/12/27/the-dynamic-offset%e2%84%a2-graph/ I've put both the 1100 and the 1200 through some serious abuse - and neglect and have yet to have either fail.

What kind of $$$ does your best pick go for ?

My recommendation would be to consider the Ritchie Yellow Jacket 40802 - it is the Digi-Cool 1200 DRSA - licensed to Ritchie by Digi-Cool Industries. I recommend the Yellow Jacket version simply due to the fact that it is already mounted to the classic Titan 4 valve manifold and includes hoses with the purchase price of approximately $700.00 USD. This is an investment that you will not regret. And customer service and support are second to absolutely no other instrument OEM. If the Americans still provided service and support on our automobiles like Digi-Cool does on these instruments, GM wouldn't be going bankrupt today.

thanks again
T-P

I have probably the largest database available on the internet relevant to these digital manifold gauges friend, anything else I can do to help - just give me a shout.

[marc5180]

The local wholesaler has started selling the Digimon gauges

http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/refco-digimon%C2%AE-digital-gauges-coming-to-hvac-protech%C2%AE-fieldtest-lineup/

what are the general opinion of these?

[HVACGod]

To the best of my knowledge the Article that you cited in your post Marc contains the only specifications available on the set - and they are somewhat limited. I have some pretty decent contacts with a Refco® distributor in the States that advised me that the sets are selling very well - at an approximated $250.00 - $300.00 USD depending upon where and when you can find them.

We have a set enroute to add to the FieldTest Evaluations as soon as they are available again.

What I know about them thus far is not firsthand, but rather came directly from the distributor. The Digimon® is strictly intended for residential applications - Refco® makes no false pretentions that they are suitable for commercial work. They have a designed in refresh/response delay of 3 seconds - this alone makes them unsuitable for some commercial applications. It was explained to me that the delay was designed in because Refco® believes it to be preferrable from a residential technicians point of view to have a consistent pressure display as opposed to spikes and valleys that one might expect with a set that displays in essentially real time. A point that is arguable at best and may or may not be an accurate reflection of the likes and dislikes of the typical residential technician.

The thing I find most disturbing about the Digimon® is ironically the very thing that many technicians find appealing about them - the cost.

Try to look at it from an objective point of view - considering the degree of technology that the Digimon® boasts - dual simultaneous display of SH/SC values - micron quality vacuum level indication - as we all know a good quality micron gauge like the Inficon Pilot for example costs more than this entire gauge set alone. So I am very skeptical of the cost relevant to the claim of capabilities.

The set may IMHO at best make a decent entry level vehicle for the residential technician that is interested in making a transition from analog to digital - a more probable scenario unfortuately may be that some of these low end digitals being introduced every other day to capitalize on the trend of transitioning from analog to digital will end up impuning the viability of the legitimate instruments like Digi-Cool® and Testo®. I don't know how many outside of the US were screwed and tatooed by similar attempts by Robinair® and Tif® - but these low end sets, at least to me have the familiar sound of an echo.

Either way irrespective of my thoughts one way or the other on the Refco®, it seems apparent at least based on my discussions with their US rep, that they will not make a good fit if you do any commercial work.

[Springbok]

Hey HVACGod,some nice info on the equipment you have there.I've seen the Testo advertise and your report just convinced me to get me one of my own.I'm sure its the moneys worth.Cheers mate...

[HVACGod]

Happy that you found the information helpful Spring.

[thermo prince]

Thanx again HVACGod, Marc and AZ too for helpful advice.
Worth repeating again but this is the brilliant advantage of sites such as R-E and ReeferTek - some 'condensed' solid , down to earth practical advice from our colleagues in field globally with hands-on everyday experience - saves us sifting through reams and reams of advertising "fluff" in catalogues and on-line.

When I was in 2nd level school, we used to write essays about the world becoming a " global village " - back then a telex machine was consider high tech ( did I just give away my vintage ?)- we had no concept of the real meaning of what we wrote or what would evolve in this millenium :rolleyes: : nowadays we really 'live the essay' ;)

best regards
T-P

[marc5180]

What a great informative post, just what i was after HVACGod. I've got a number for the yellow jacket sales representative here in the UK so i'm going to give him a call today and find out about the price of the DRSA 1200 instead.

[get the gauges]

Marc ,Have you found out where to buy the yellow jackets ? the testo site won't give a price ,even though i am registered with the site. The testo's seem to beautiful to be true.

[sparrow]

There is a video on u tube on the Drsa 1200
if your interested Mark. It does look very good and it could help you with the superheat and subcooling issues you have had.

[HVACGod]

Apparently unable to embed clips directly into the text fields, the clips of the high resoultion DRSA 1200 on YouTube are mine - I have given the link below.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C34aezaO8-Q

This clip offers operating instructions of the 1200, another good presentation:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fi_1EqZl2_Q

[HVACGod]

Marc ,Have you found out where to buy the yellow jackets ? the testo site won't give a price ,even though i am registered with the site. The testo's seem to beautiful to be true.

Yea they are a "pretty" gauge aren't they?:D Which set were you interested in pricing GTG? I can at least get the USD - possibly Euro cost for you.

[nike123]

Today I got offer here in Croatia for Yellow Jacket 40802 (DSR1200) 780$ tax excluded. Delivery 1 month!

[marc5180]

Marc ,Have you found out where to buy the yellow jackets ? the testo site won't give a price ,even though i am registered with the site. The testo's seem to beautiful to be true.
Yes i got a number of a company that are selling them in the UK in Manchester. I've just got the prices list through now and they are £515 + vat, these are the gauges below
http://www.yellowjacket.com/images/products/ChrgngSystms/40805-with-boot.jpg

I am very tempted by these even at the huge price. Which is the better of the 2, the yellow jacket or the Digicool DRSA?

Also i have found the Drsa for 770 dollars from america, could i not buy them from over there and get them shipped over to me, which would save me a fortune?

[marc5180]

Just been looking on ebay and you can get the Testo 523 for 769 dollars and the yellow jacket one for 649 dollars. This seems a heck of a saving even with import tax at a maximum of 30% it still looks like the cheaper way to go.

[nike123]

Yellow Jacket 40802 and DRSA 1200 are the same instrument with difference that Yellow Jacket comes with manifolds.

[HVACGod]

Just been looking on ebay and you can get the Testo 523 for 769 dollars and the yellow jacket one for 649 dollars. This seems a heck of a saving even with import tax at a maximum of 30% it still looks like the cheaper way to go.

Marc a few things regarding your most recent post that I've quoted above.

First of all, relevant to the Testo® 523 on EBay® - if that is in fact the route you opt to pursue, let me refer you back to this Article: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/manifold-gauges-%ce%a6the-definitive-guide-excerpt/ Keep in mind this is only an excerpt from Manifold Gauges: [ΦThe Definitive Guide™] that I am currently in the midst of writing for release to my site this Spring - but if you will note the 523 shown in the top figure of that Article - look at the difference between that image and the image of the 523 in the lower portion of that excerpt, in particular look at the piece that's been added in the lower image behind the hose ports, and note that it is not present in the first image.

The first image is the second generation 523 v2.00, the lower image is the second generation 523 v2.01 - Version 2.01 had the protector added behind the hose ports following the concern of potential refrigerant loss near this area of the instrument, as I pointed out in an earlier post in this thread. If the instruments being offered on EBay® do not have this protector on them, they have not been returned to the factory during the recall - also remember that there has been a subsequent revision in the form of firmware flashing - referenced and illustrated here: http://digitalzeus.wordpress.com/2008/02/18/testo%c2%ae-523-firmware-update/ resulting in the designation of the models that have had this no cost upgrade from the factory as the second generation 523 v2.02 The chances of any 523 on EBay® having this updated firmware - unless they are an authorized distributor is probably slim to none. So caveat emptor my friend - especially with electronics on EBay®.

With that said I have a very good friend in the states that is an authorized distributor for the Testo® instruments as well as very good friends that are Digi-Cool® distributors - if I can do anything on this side of the pond to help you acquire a set at a more admirable end cost to you, please do not hesitate to contact me via a PM.

[Doug Lockhart]

Can these not be bought in the Uk becasue i can't find a site that sells them.:(
Marc...can't PM you so I sent information back to Tony.....he'll send it through pretty quickly...Tony can give you my personal cell and email.....give me a shout if you have questions and concerns....I'm a Canuck eh!!!

[o5g]

If you phone the old geezer from Digicool he will get back to you.:D

[HVACGod]

Done. Marc if you need any more information that what I provided in our PM exchange, hit me back - Thanks Lockhart, appreciate it.

[marc5180]

Just thought i'd update you. After speaking to Tony and Doug i have decided to go with the yellow jacket DRSA ones but i am getting them from here in the Uk not from America or i would have got the Digi cool ones. I take delivery of the on Friday:D:D so i will let you know what i think of them.

[Brian_UK]

So that's the Christmas bonus all spent then Marc :D:)

[marc5180]

Christmas bonus, i wish:D More like i've sold everything i own on ebay:eek:

[Brian_UK]

You'll be wanting those old and tatty manifold sets back them I take it?

[drew71]

Hi all

I really wish I hadn't started reading this. I think I saw the same Testo ad that Saturated mentioned in the original post (HVACR Nation), and I manged to turn the page, but after all the information above I think I must have one !.

I'd better stop buying toys or I'll soon need a bigger van !

Cheers

Drew

[marc5180]

My digital analyzer arrived today:D:D Only problem is it's now friday and i'm not in work now till monday:( (sad i know) but can't wait 'till monday so i can use my new toy

[Brian_UK]

Plug it onto your vans tyres and see if the pressures are correct. ;)

[marc5180]

Now there's a thought lol:D

[Brian_UK]

It's a shame that there aren't so many window rattlers about now.

They used to be ideal, stuck in your garage/shed just waiting to be used as a test bed for any ideas/problems that you may have.

[marc5180]

I know, like you say though you dont come across them very often any more. I'll have to keep my eye out or if anyone wishes to donate one to me.:D:D

[Refrigerologist]

The only thing that bothers me with these electronic gauges that can be set for all HFC refrigerants is cross contamination of oils. I think the cost is prohibitve to carrying three sets! Or do you just need several sets of hoses marked for the different oil/refrigerant groups?

[nike123]

Do you really think that you could significantly contaminate system with few drops of oil in hoses?

For example, maximum acceptable mineral oil quantity in POE is 5%. Mineral and AB oil are mixable to 50%/50% ratio.

Other combinations I did not studied, so if someone knows, I will appreciate any contribution to this matter.

[Refrigerologist]

Do you really think that you could significantly contaminate system with few drops of oil in hoses?

For example, maximum acceptable mineral oil quantity in POE is 5%. Mineral and AB oil are mixable to 50%/50% ratio.

Other combinations I did not studied, so if someone knows, I will appreciate any contribution to this matter.

Probably not! But if you were assessed by the UK gas handling lot every three years, you would think it is a major problem. I am inclined to agree with you, that a lot more is made of it than is necessary!!