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DaButcher
25-01-2008, 02:57 AM
Code -23, (unit heating when should be cooling) only sets in pretrip (about every third pretrip).

Download shows:
near perfect at maintaining set point at any temp.
no other codes

My approach:
followed "green book"
never saw a problem with unit sticking in heat
no air flow problems
pump downs, ***** level, and pressures normal
watched td while unit is in pretrip, appeared normal,
sensors normal
still coded a -23 sometimes

I could not do nothing;)
Flashed software to B007 and 6512
R&R pilot solenoid

Unit was back on the road after passing 1 more pretrip!

I have doubts as to whether unit will continue to pass pretrips, but as usual the driver and his company were pressing me to get this trailer back in service, so I gave in knowing the next load would be OK because of the download history.

Observations, suggestions please.

absolute-zero
25-01-2008, 09:07 AM
Code -23, (unit heating when should be cooling) only sets in pretrip (about every third pretrip).

Download shows:
near perfect at maintaining set point at any temp.
no other codes

My approach:
followed "green book"
never saw a problem with unit sticking in heat
no air flow problems
pump downs, ***** level, and pressures normal
watched td while unit is in pretrip, appeared normal,
sensors normal
still coded a -23 sometimes

I could not do nothing;)
Flashed software to B007 and 6512
R&R pilot solenoid

Unit was back on the road after passing 1 more pretrip!

I have doubts as to whether unit will continue to pass pretrips, but as usual the driver and his company were pressing me to get this trailer back in service, so I gave in knowing the next load would be OK because of the download history.

Observations, suggestions please.

1. What was the original unit complaint?

2. What did you do to fix original complaint?

3.Did you get a download after the third PTI when code occured?

4. Did you replace pilot solenoid and flashload B007 before or after running multiple PTI's?

I am interested in seeing the download if you want to share. The download may help me understand to see what happened.

Do you still have my email address?

A-Z

DaButcher
25-01-2008, 02:06 PM
1. What was the original unit complaint?

2. What did you do to fix original complaint?

3.Did you get a download after the third PTI when code occured?

4. Did you replace pilot solenoid and flashload B007 before or after running multiple PTI's?

I am interested in seeing the download if you want to share. The download may help me understand to see what happened.

Do you still have my email address?

A-Z

the code 23 was the original complaint, driver was new and doing as told to pretrip every 8 hrs.

1 download, before any changes were made, multiple pretrips were done by driver over several days

unit coded a 23 during pretrip after flashloads

passed one pretrip after pilot solenoid installed

Will send you the download, when I get it to this computer later today, kept your address

first, thing I did was manually defrost unit to check for sticking in heat

second, was pretrip and it passed

third, update software, mainly because previous tech, a few days earlier had flashed b004 and 6511

fourth, pretrip failed

fifth, r&r pilot solenoid

last, pretrip passed

hope that's clear as mud!

absolute-zero
25-01-2008, 05:05 PM
I will look for your email;)

A-Z

absolute-zero
28-01-2008, 02:16 AM
Wheres the download?:confused:

DaButcher
28-01-2008, 05:35 AM
Wheres the download?:confused:

Had to leave the laptop at work, I'll get it to you asap.

abbsnowman
28-01-2008, 07:59 AM
There were issues with the three way valve that caused the valve to hang up.

DaButcher
28-01-2008, 03:22 PM
There were issues with the three way valve that caused the valve to hang up.

Ya, have rebuilt a few of those. Couldn't prove it bad on this unit.

absolute-zero
28-01-2008, 03:55 PM
I remeber the threeway valve end cap and spring issue, But very rarely did it fault for heat cycle code, it was typically found more on the cool cycle.

When the unit ran in temp range in low speed and was shifting back and forth between heat and cool, sometimes the valve would not shift completely back unless it ran in high speed, this was because the three way valve spring in the end cap was lossing its strength due to thermal conditions, the hotter it became the more the spring lost its strength. As it lost its strength , it was no longer able to push the threeway valve spool back against the evaporator seat, this cause the valve to hang up somewhere between heat and cool both condesor and evaporator ports were open to allow refrigerant flow, typically you would have saw a 5 degree TD in cool mode when running low speed vs. a -TD, however if you were to manually ramp up the high speed, the compressor pressure and suction pressure created enough of a Pressure differntila to get he valve to completly shift against the evaporator seat. However in PT condition, this does not hold true, as the PT is forcing the unit to run in In low speed and performing the 300 degree algorythm pulldown and differntial checks, if the unit does not see the correct diffs and temp bands it just throws the code for whatever cycle it was running in.

When unit is in normal running operation you would have not seen the code, because the unit would have cycled into high speed when temp fell out of range 5 degrees, or fuelsaver 2 conditions were met, not including whatever other fuel saving optiset may have contributed, to making the unit wait for high speed, operation.

We were making temporary fixes by insatlling washers behind the spring to give added pressure, but again this dint correct permanently, as the spring continued to lose its strenght due to thermal conditons, the only permanent correction was to replace the end cap spring, that TK had to fix and offer as a replacemment for this abnormal condition. I do remeber A Tk member giving me a lot of springs to field test, some were 25%v stonger but still would not hold strength over time, TK finally got to the root of the problem as they always do and fixed it.

I dont know why i went onto tell this whole,,Once upon a time story, when i could have simply said, check or replace the spring. but I wanted to see a download, as this would have helped me see if this situation was to hold true or not.

Regards A-Z

DaButcher
29-01-2008, 02:46 AM
Wheres the download?:confused:

AZ you should have the download now, srry bout the delay.

DaButcher
29-01-2008, 02:56 AM
I remeber the threeway valve end cap and spring issue, But very rarely did it fault for heat cycle code, it was typically found more on the cool cycle.

When the unit ran in temp range in low speed and was shifting back and forth between heat and cool, sometimes the valve would not shift completely back unless it ran in high speed, this was because the three way valve spring in the end cap was lossing its strength due to thermal conditions, the hotter it became the more the spring lost its strength. As it lost its strength , it was no longer able to push the threeway valve spool back against the evaporator seat, this cause the valve to hang up somewhere between heat and cool both condesor and evaporator ports were open to allow refrigerant flow, typically you would have saw a 5 degree TD in cool mode when running low speed vs. a -TD, however if you were to manually ramp up the high speed, the compressor pressure and suction pressure created enough of a Pressure differntila to get he valve to completly shift against the evaporator seat. However in PT condition, this does not hold true, as the PT is forcing the unit to run in In low speed and performing the 300 degree algorythm pulldown and differntial checks, if the unit does not see the correct diffs and temp bands it just throws the code for whatever cycle it was running in.

When unit is in normal running operation you would have not seen the code, because the unit would have cycled into high speed when temp fell out of range 5 degrees, or fuelsaver 2 conditions were met, not including whatever other fuel saving optiset may have contributed, to making the unit wait for high speed, operation.

We were making temporary fixes by insatlling washers behind the spring to give added pressure, but again this dint correct permanently, as the spring continued to lose its strenght due to thermal conditons, the only permanent correction was to replace the end cap spring, that TK had to fix and offer as a replacemment for this abnormal condition. I do remeber A Tk member giving me a lot of springs to field test, some were 25%v stonger but still would not hold strength over time, TK finally got to the root of the problem as they always do and fixed it.

I dont know why i went onto tell this whole,,Once upon a time story, when i could have simply said, check or replace the spring. but I wanted to see a download, as this would have helped me see if this situation was to hold true or not.

Regards A-Z

I went through the threeway valve issue with the springs and the washer being a fix, TK no longer advises to put a washer, (don't tell anyone, but DaButcher still does). Those units were obvious that the threeway was not shifting properly.

The code 23 unit was far from obvious, in my mind only two choices, the pilot solenoid or the threeway valve.
Hmmm, I took the easier of the two to keep from doing nothing and get the trailer back to the loading dock.

The code 23 unit did not fall into the typical age range for the spring issue has less than 2000 engine hrs.

absolute-zero
29-01-2008, 03:58 AM
Ok Dabutcher,

Heres what i found, the unit is definetly showing the classic signs of a weak threeway valve spring. the code 23 is a cool cycle fault and it is happening exactly like i said in the previous posting.

This is one pti barely passed and very similiar to the other ones that passed. please look at notes that i put in graphs you can distiguish the differnce.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/Reefer-Tek/PTIwintracdownloadgood.jpg

Here is one PTI that failed on Code 23 cool cycle fault, again look at he notes for refernces in the down load graph.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/Reefer-Tek/PTIwintracdownloadfailed.jpg


Notice that it did happen in low speed, when unit shifted from heat mode to cool. after 5 minutes of not seeing the correct td it failed PTI. you can see it in the tabular data as well but thought this would be more effective....

I have noted your comment on unit year and era of spring in your last post, but it would seem we have one isolated situation here. I think you change the spring with new, the problems will go away.

Regards A-Z

DaButcher
29-01-2008, 04:58 AM
Very good A-Z, looks like I have a lot to learn about reading the downloads.

absolute-zero
29-01-2008, 05:10 AM
Very good A-Z, looks like I have a lot to learn about reading the downloads.

I have been reading downloads for 8 years, and when wintrac 4.6 came along I was in heaven. That software is awsome for trouble shooting.

actually i started reading downloads as a diagnostice aid on Multi-temps, from there that helped me understand what the unit was doing in all modes of operation when faults or problems occured.

It can be alot of data to look at when considering ambient, coil, discharge, return, rpm engine temps, mode of operation, and with technician user level you get all the other good stuff as well like etv and its state, suction press, discharge press transducers, believe it or not i look at all the data and the whole history of the data, these downloads are like a book, they all tell a story.

And your download told me a story about a three-way valve spring that wished it could.;)

Regards A-Z

absolute-zero
29-01-2008, 07:24 PM
Found this Srvice TSB laying around and though it may be a good fit here, in this thread.

See attachment for TSB;)

Regards A-Z

absolute-zero
29-01-2008, 07:38 PM
Here is another that was found in my list of archives

See attachment..

never mind to big

tkjimmy
05-02-2008, 11:25 PM
dont no if you got it fixed yet but ive seen quit a few of them
change threeway valve end cap.

the problem is the condenser pressure bypass check valve leaks holding in heat a few minutes after defrost

they have reworked the cap and now the check valve is bigger

i have a fleet of 700 210,s
no dought

hope this helped you

absolute-zero
06-02-2008, 07:45 AM
dont no if you got it fixed yet but ive seen quit a few of them
change threeway valve end cap.

the problem is the condenser pressure bypass check valve leaks holding in heat a few minutes after defrost

they have reworked the cap and now the check valve is bigger

i have a fleet of 700 210,s
no dought

hope this helped you

Yeah that would have been the TSB in prior post that was to big for upload.:(

Wow 700 SB210's:eek: I would be in heaven:)

A-Z

mohansingh71
06-08-2009, 07:03 AM
Dear sir, our Toshiba carrier vrv has alarm e- 08, e-4 and show duplicate indoor address and what is the solutation