Illegal venting of refrigerants

[chataroets]

Hi all. I am doing contract work for a mine in South Africa.(Automotive air conditioning) It has come to my attention that the mine is "using" +- 1100kg of R134a gas per month!! In other words, they are venting 1100kg of R134a gas in a month. This is very sad, because it means that they are not informed, or maybe just dont care, of the impact it have to the envirnment. They also do not have recovery units and proper tools to repear gasleaks. On the mine there is only two people with safe handling certivicates(myself and one other contractor). I have been asked to do a presentation on the harm that refrigerants can do to our world. If someone can please give me website add. or any other info on this matter. Please, I need solid and concrete facts, just that they can see I am not just thum sucking.
Thanks, Elardus (South Africa).

[Brian_UK]

Elardus, what are the regulations in SA regarding the release of hazardous waste such as this ?

I hope that they are not venting underground.

[Brian_UK]

A quick search starts here...

http://www.botany.uwc.ac.za/Envfacts/facts/ozone.htm

Some old facts...

http://soer.deat.gov.za/themes.aspx?m=44

and good old Wikiepia for some general knowledge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-134a

[absolute-zero]

Hi all. I am doing contract work for a mine in South Africa.(Automotive air conditioning) It has come to my attention that the mine is "using" +- 1100kg of R134a gas per month!! In other words, they are venting 1100kg of R134a gas in a month. This is very sad, because it means that they are not informed, or maybe just dont care, of the impact it have to the envirnment. They also do not have recovery units and proper tools to repear gasleaks. On the mine there is only two people with safe handling certivicates(myself and one other contractor). I have been asked to do a presentation on the harm that refrigerants can do to our world. If someone can please give me website add. or any other info on this matter. Please, I need solid and concrete facts, just that they can see I am not just thum sucking.
Thanks, Elardus (South Africa).

I will check to see what i have available as a powerpoint presentation that you can possibly use as a presentation tool. Untill i find let me lend you some advise in resource type material that will help your clients understand.

R134a is a HFC refrigerant, being it is a HFC it has zero ozone depletion potentiols.

However HFC refrigerants still emit compounds that cause Global Warming, much like auotmobiles and other types of industiral processes that emit harmfull compounds.

http://unfccc.int/ghg_emissions_data/items/3825.php

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/science/topics/globalwarming/index.html?query=HFC-134A%20(COOLANT)&field=des&match=exact

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V9G-3V5F819-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e2491387f781f3cc423413e02f67ea72

Hope some of these links help, you can also look in google search for other resource by typing in the search engine.

HFC global warming. you will be surprised how much info that will give you.

Regards A-Z

[chataroets]

Thanks to all, this will give me a good start. Yes, the regulations in SA is basicly the same as in the UK, the only problem is that it is not inforced properly. The main buyer from the mine's stores is actualy not surpose to be able to buy any tipe of gas without a safe handling certificate. Luckely they are not venting the gas underground Yet. This is a open cast mine for now, but they are going underground soon.
Once again Thanks! and have a super day!
Elardus SA.

[Tesla]

Sad to hear,but not unexpected.
your doing the right thing to make a differance. the only way I found to combat these ignorants in the past was to show them how much money they are wasting in dollars and cents. Then I supose one could annonomously advetise the fact that a refrigerant manufacturer was suppling the ozone if the cost was not a deterant. In saying al that I personally have seen no proof what so ever of ozone depletion from the scaremungers - it could simply be a natural cycle of global warming.

[Argus]

Hi all. I am doing contract work for a mine in South Africa.(Automotive air conditioning) It has come to my attention that the mine is "using" +- 1100kg of R134a gas per month!! In other words, they are venting 1100kg of R134a gas in a month.


Venting non-natural refrigerant to atmosphere is illegal in almost all developed countries.
Enforcement, or the lack of it, is another matter. That is probably the biggest problem to deal with – not some clown not knowing what he’s about....

Customer attitude is another matter and if the prospect of losing the vast cost in money of the quantity of refrigerant that you mentioned on a regular basis doesn’t convince them, then nothing will - except perhaps a prosecution.
For the want of some basic engineering it seems staggering to me that it could leak that amount.

I was involved in a seminar in the UK some years ago where we were exploring the costs, risks and energy savings of leakage prevention over the life cycle of a system and one individual was coming up with ever more ingenious, yet hare-brained ways of evading the law in this area.
Eventually, I asked him if he was gay.
Silence.
“No!”
I said, “You probably will be when you get out of jail”.

.

[paul_h]

Sad to hear,but not unexpected.
your doing the right thing to make a differance. the only way I found to combat these ignorants in the past was to show them how much money they are wasting in dollars and cents. Then I supose one could annonomously advetise the fact that a refrigerant manufacturer was suppling the ozone if the cost was not a deterant. In saying al that I personally have seen no proof what so ever of ozone depletion from the scaremungers - it could simply be a natural cycle of global warming.
My opinion too. We are not enviromental scientists, convincing someone of something we aren't a specialist in is too hard.
On the other hand threatening employers with laws and regulations won't go down well either.

Just tell them that they would save heaps of downtime if they bought the right gear and did the job properly so leaks would be minimalised. If all the a/cs work, all the vehicles could be out there working making the owners money. :)

[chataroets]

Hi, just to explain the situation more widely to give better insight on my problem:
My clients are large companies doing contract work for this specific, very rich and very large Diamond mine (not wanting to mention names). There are over 80 trucks, 12 large drilling riggs, 5 large shovels and +-20 other smaller machines using R134a in their ac systems. Some of these installations gets recharged twice dayly!! at +-1.9kg refrigerant. Because of our very high ambients in summer, the opperators are not allowed to work the machine when the ac is out of order. The main contractor (whose responsibility it is to maintain the machines) are charged with fines per hour when the machine is standing. All machines work 24hour 7 days a week. The "standing time" penalty is 1000 times bigger then the cost of 1 x 13.6kg cylinder of gas. The aim is to educate the resonsible department of conservation. They in turn, WILL force the contractors to get their act toghether. As I said, 1 cotainer of R134a's money, is a drop in the sea compaired to losses per hour the mine faces.
Hope this clear a few things.
Thanks for all your replies!
Have a lekka day.
Elardus.

[paul_h]

Yes, I understood that to be the situation. But time off line for the machines does not just count the time that it's right in front of the a/c mech.
It includes all the time it's being taken from the "frontline" to the repairers get fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if more than an hour is lost for every regas.

Therefore more regassing it needs, more time penalty applies.
While if you do it properly, 1hr work (if workshop is fully equipped with spares and good equipment) means you have no more servicing for months/years.
so total of 1 hr every week to do the dodgey, vs 3 hours to do the job right once a year?

[absolute-zero]

Here in the US auotomotive air condition does not have strict rules on recharging the systems.

According to what I have read and also am self certified in EPA section 609, a customer can bring there vehicle to certified technician here, get there A/C looked at tech can tell the end user or customer that they have a leak, and make the recomendation of getting it fixed, the customer can decline the recomended repairs and have a gas charge regardless.

But the certified technician cannot knowinhly vent these gasses,

It seems a bit contradictory, if i can obviously see a big rotted hole in condensor that will leak all its gas out in less than a couple days or a week, I still can recharge, the system. HOW MESSED UP IS THAT?

Now my other certification per US EPA section 608 type 2 states that I may not charge a system depending on what its application is if exceeds 35% annual leak, for commercial refrigeration, and 15% annual leak rate on Air condition system that are used for comfort.

I obviously do not agree with the differnces but hey I dont dictate what the laws are and how they should be followed.

People went years with out auto AC, it a comfort something we now take for granted, role down your windows beurcrats save the environment.

Regards A-Z