Level 2 NVQ

[Danny11]

Hi guys here's one for you lot

I was speaking to a top body at The Heating and Ventilating Contractors' Association today and they said even if you have Level 2 NVQ in air conditioning and refrigeration + your 2078 RH you still have to be supervised by a Level 3 candidate.

He also said 75% of Level 2 engineers work on there own or with an apprentice but sould'nt do and companys are at risk.

Any feedback on this guys

Cheers

Danny
www.airconsquad.co.uk

[get the gauges]

I was under the impression that the only tradesmen that require qualifications by law are gas service engineers who must be have a corgi at there side while working on a gas equipment and anyone responsible for electrical work in domestic premises who must have ' part P '. I'm not aware that installs of splits needs mandatory qualification.It's only certain organizations that insist on over the top working practices.But i may be wrong.

[Pooh]

Get The Gauges
you are in for one hell of a shock mate! the FGas regulations that become European Law shortly will require anybody working with refrigerants will need at least NVQ2 Level qualifications in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning and a 2078-01 qualification as well as a brazing qualification to work in the trade. We are coming under the same regulations as the electricians and gas fitters. Hopefully these regulations should get rid of some of the cowboys that are out there chucking in splits all over the place with no idea of what they are doing.

As for the requirement for Level two qualified staff to be supervised by level three engineers does not ring true as I would not have been able to work on my own for the last 30 years as I aint got an NVQ3. Plus think of the financial implications.


Ian

[get the gauges]

Get The Gauges
you are in for one hell of a shock mate! the FGas regulations that become European Law shortly will require anybody working with refrigerants will need at least NVQ2 Level qualifications in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning and a 2078-01 qualification as well as a brazing qualification to work in the trade. We are coming under the same regulations as the electricians and gas fitters. Hopefully these regulations should get rid of some of the cowboys that are out there chucking in splits all over the place with no idea of what they are doing.

As for the requirement for Level two qualified staff to be supervised by level three engineers does not ring true as I would not have been able to work on my own for the last 30 years as I aint got an NVQ3. Plus think of the financial implications.


Ian

Well thanks for the heads up, i wasn't aware of that i haven't got nvq lv2 anyway because i'm from an electrical background i maybe forced to go to college again(i did go back in the day, but it was a useless course) and get it sorted which i'll gladly do but it's fitting it in around work, I better get down that college then,although i'll be interested in how they'll enforce it.

[Grizzly]

Get The Gauges
you are in for one hell of a shock mate! the FGas regulations that become European Law shortly will require anybody working with refrigerants will need at least NVQ2 Level qualifications in Refrigeration and Air Conditioning and a 2078-01 qualification as well as a brazing qualification to work in the trade. We are coming under the same regulations as the electricians and gas fitters. Hopefully these regulations should get rid of some of the cowboys that are out there chucking in splits all over the place with no idea of what they are doing.

As for the requirement for Level two qualified staff to be supervised by level three engineers does not ring true as I would not have been able to work on my own for the last 30 years as I aint got an NVQ3. Plus think of the financial implications.


Ian
Pooh.
Whats this about seperate Brazing Qualifications?
Had to do an Brazing Test for an internal assesment last year. ( I was not Impressed most of my younger NVQ trained Colleagues didn't even know what a Nuetralised flame was!)
With City & Guilds it was part of the 1st & 2nd year I think? Is a City & Guilds Certificate good enough?
Grizzly

[Danny11]

Pooh.
Whats this about seperate Brazing Qualifications?
Had to do an Brazing Test for an internal assesment last year. ( I was not Impressed most of my younger NVQ trained Colleagues didn't even know what a Nuetralised flame was!)
With City & Guilds it was part of the 1st & 2nd year I think? Is a City & Guilds Certificate good enough?
Grizzly


Yeah iv got city and guilds certificate 101,201,202 + 2071 Rh and they still said you need level 3 supervision.
Health and safty is getting stupid these days.

Iv just come back from mexico and they don't even wear shoes on scaffold towers CCRRAAZZZYYYY.hehe

[Pooh]

Grizzly
It is one of the oddities of the system that we have to train the students to industry brazing standards but do not have to issue a certificate for the NVQ. Under the requirements of the FGas as I understand them all persons working on refrigeration plant will need either the CITB or the BRA brazing cert. We are going to integrate it within the NVQ at level two instead of the level three as we do at present.

Danny11 you have the Technical certificate but do you have the full NVQ ie. did you produce a portfolio of work based evidence? If you did not you will need to complete the NVQ part as well before you are qualified.

Get The Gauges, there is a way of doing the NVQ without going to college, drop me a PM with a contact number and I will explain.

Yes the NVQ3 is for supervisory level staff and most engineers on service or running installations should be capable of gaining it without to much trouble but I do not know of anywhere that it states supervisory staff must have it.


Ian

[Grizzly]

Grizzly
It is one of the oddities of the system that we have to train the students to industry brazing standards but do not have to issue a certificate for the NVQ. Under the requirements of the FGas as I understand them all persons working on refrigeration plant will need either the CITB or the BRA brazing cert. We are going to integrate it within the NVQ at level two instead of the level three as we do at present.

Get The Gauges, there is a way of doing the NVQ without going to college,

Yes the NVQ3 is for supervisory level staff and most engineers on service or running installations should be capable of gaining it without to much trouble but I do not know of anywhere that it states supervisory staff must have it.


Ian
Pooh.
Am I reading this correctly?
My City & Guilds will not be sufficient for a measure of Brazing compitence ( not sure if that's spelt correctly). Therefore I will have to take a seperate test. Let me guess they have to be renewed every three years?
Thanks for the advice about NVQ'S.
Am I reading this correctly your interpritation of the shortly to be unveiled Regs. Is that to supervise someone in future it may be necessary to have a NVQ 3 certificate
Which can only be obtained by going to college.
It is not my intention to single you out as I know there are lots of other trainers out there as well.
Who seem to be retisent to answer or have been waiting for some answers themselves.
whereas you are giving us some answers.
I would welcome some advise from anyone on this.
Apparantly NVQ 2. IS THE REQUIRED MINIMUM.
What level of City & Guilds is that eqiverlant to?
Thanks Grizzly

[Pooh]

Grizzly
as it stands in most cases today the City & Guilds is not an accepted level of brazing competence for most large customers, most are asking for either the CITB or the BRA certificate for the sizes of pipework you are working with. With both awards you can do a small pipe certification which is if my memory serves is upto 7/8" and the large pipe which covers sizes above that. And yes they do need renewing every three years (stealth tax), I learnt to braze 30+ years ago and for some reason I have not forgotten how to do it and the procedures and materials have not changed so why do I need to retake the training.
My comments that the NVQ2 is going to be the required minimum level are based on reading the required practical competences and knowledge requirements required to meet the FGas legislation and cross referencing them to the existing qualifications framework we have.
I could be wrong in my interpretation of the FGas legislation requirements but from talking to others I should not be far off the mark.

In respect of what an NVQ2 relates to as far as the older qualifications if you have the old City & Guilds 207 Refrigeration mechanics certificate and served an apprenticeship then that is the same, if you have the 257 with an apprenticeship then that equates to an NVQ3, quite how these are going to be tied in is yet to be decided.
Hope this helps.
If I anm wrong I will go and stand in the corner.

Ian

[Danny11]

Danny11 you have the Technical certificate but do you have the full NVQ ie. did you produce a portfolio of work based evidence? If you did not you will need to complete the NVQ part as well before you are qualified.


Yeah i have compleated my portfolio of 8 jobs and got my final certificate.Im the same,been doing air-con for 5 years now and it annoyed me when i heard it.

Anyway im starting to think its not true,but why would they say it.:confused:

Anyway guys cheers for your feedback

Danny (www.airconsquad.co.uk (http://www.airconsquad.co.uk))

[knight rider]

hi pooh ,
can you let me know where i would fit in the nvq range , as i have city and guilds and a BTEC national certifcate ( + 20 years exp ) ,
would this be equal to nvq level 3 ?

many thanks

[borodave1973]

I have city and guilds 207/2 207/3 and 207/8 +19 years experience so whats that mean in nvq?

Also think you can do a nvq with just site based visits from a qualiffed assesor from a relevant training provider which my company are looking at for the un qualified engineers.

[thermo prince]

Yeah iv got city and guilds certificate 101,201,202 + 2071 Rh and they still said you need level 3 supervision.
Health and safty is getting stupid these days.

Iv just come back from mexico and they don't even wear shoes on scaffold towers CCRRAAZZZYYYY.hehe

.... yep, welcome to emerging markets - the BRIC (Brazil Russia India China )economies as they are called nowadays onthe business channels & papers.
Come see a booming world city like HK where single staging bamboo scaffolding ( not 2 stage with a gang-plank mind you!) tied with what I call 'black hay baling twine' is still the order of day on many rising billion dollar skyscrapers! And green netting surrounding the whole shell lest person or tools may fall on innocent passerby below! :eek: :eek:
Guys wearing tennis shoes wrap their legs around the bamboo poles as climb & they do their plumbing/masonry/cladding jobs on the outer shell of building. I must get a good photo to post ....:D

But hey, .. it was like that in Colonial days too pre 1997 handover! :rolleyes:

best regards
T-P

[frank]

for the un qualified engineers.
I know it's a play on words borodave but how can one be an 'Engineer' if one is un-qualified? :D
P.S. are you from Middlesbrough?

[borodave1973]

I know it's a play on words borodave but how can one be an 'Engineer' if one is un-qualified? :D
P.S. are you from Middlesbrough?


True! they don't have any formal ac qualifications except safe handling I wouldn't class them as full engineers but the industries full of them......

Not from middlesbrough but support the mighty reds!!

[borodave1973]

Went on a course today and if you are qualiffied up to city and guilds advanced craft it is the same as nvq level 3.

Also if anyone here has a skill card (scss) and no nvq or equivilant when it is renewed you will only get a mate card and not an engineers one.

About time in my eyes as why should some one with no qualifications be able to have the same card as me when i did 3 years at college:mad:

[nike123]

About time in my eyes as why should some one with no qualifications be able to have the same card as me when i did 3 years at college:mad:

I don't know anything about these cards you are referring at, but generally speaking, why someone who have all required knowledge for issuing such a card could not have it, regardless of formal education. If knowledge is there, who cares how is acquired?

[Pooh]

Nike123
but how can somebody know the knowledge is there without testing it? Or should we beleive a person who says they have the knowledge without any proof?
There has got to be a minimum level of knowledge required to do any job and the only way of proving that knowledge is by testing and thus the awarding of qualifications which then make it easier for everybody to know the person with the qualification has the required knowledge to do a particular job.
At present anybody in the UK can set up as a refrigeration and air conditioning engineer and as long as they have the refrigerant handling qualification thats all they need( two day course). Sorry that course does not prove anybody is a fridgie. I know storemen and van drivers that have the qualification and they would not be capable of installing or servicing anything.
Unfortunately the world now revolves around qualifications especially due to the blame culture we live in and everybodies intention to sew if anything goes wrong, the insurance companies are now pushing for proof of competence before they will insure people so it will get worse even without taking the environmental issues into account.

Ian

PS in reality it is the industry that is to blame for not training enough engineers to meet the requirements and thus necesitating the employment of non trained staff.

[nike123]

Nike123
but how can somebody know the knowledge is there without testing it? Or should we beleive a person who says they have the knowledge without any proof?
There has got to be a minimum level of knowledge required to do any job and the only way of proving that knowledge is by testing and thus the awarding of qualifications which then make it easier for everybody to know the person with the qualification has the required knowledge to do a particular job.
.
I taught that testing of knowledge and skills is required for that cards. If not, then what is their purpose? Just for shoving off or what? If that is a case, why you care who and how has got them!

[adam_raza]

Hi
just noticed your message regarding the nvq level 2 without going to college i would be gratefull if you could advise me on this im adam from birmingham you can call me on 07970280306 thankyou

regards
adam

[cool runings]

Hi
just noticed your message regarding the nvq level 2 without going to college i would be gratefull if you could advise me on this im adam from birmingham you can call me on 07970280306 thankyou

regards
adam


Adam what information do you want to know?

It is not wise to post your tel number on a public forum, its full of weiredo's you know :o

Let us know what you need..

coolrunnings

.

[Reffnut]

Ive also been looking for a Online course but for NVQ 3 as ive done 2 already but no longer have the time to go to college even in the evenings.

Any one know of anywhere i can do this?

[cool runings]

Ive also been looking for a Online course but for NVQ 3 as ive done 2 already but no longer have the time to go to college even in the evenings.

Any one know of anywhere i can do this?


There are 2 places that do Tech Cert by distance learning that I know.

One is the Grimsby Institute (College)
the other is Star Refrigeration..

All the best coolrunnings

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