Hitachi Summit 2.5kW Failed!

[Jimbo!]

Hi All, my first post and I'm a low-rank DIYer I'm afraid, feel free to slag me off! :cool:

I self-installed a couple of chineese cheapo systems off ebay, R407C, working a treat for past couple of years.

Now I've got a 2.5kW Summit Inverter, bought with flexible lines and quick-couple connectors at the outdoor box - installation was nice and easy ;) - but it worked superbly for exactly one day, now the compressor won't start and the timer light is flashing 4 times on the indoor unit.

Supplier seems relaxed enough about it, but are these units generally unreliable?

Thanks!

[nike123]

Hi All, my first post and I'm a low-rank DIYer I'm afraid, feel free to slag me off! :cool:

I self-installed a couple of chineese cheapo systems off ebay, R407C, working a treat for past couple of years.

Now I've got a 2.5kW Summit Inverter, bought with flexible lines and quick-couple connectors at the outdoor box - installation was nice and easy ;) - but it worked superbly for exactly one day, now the compressor won't start and the timer light is flashing 4 times on the indoor unit.

Supplier seems relaxed enough about it, but are these units generally unreliable?

Thanks!

Something is wrong with outdoor unit (electrical PCB).
Leave it to service personnel in order to not loose warranty.

[Brian_UK]

The 4 flashes indicate a problem with the outdoor unit, you need to check the fault indicators on the outdoor PCB.

It will fault within 30 minutes in some cases and after several hours in another so it is hard to be specific.

As Nike123 says, beware invalidating your warranty. You could download the manual from Hitachi but would it get the problem resolved ?

[Jimbo!]

Cheers guys! The supplier is just going to send me a new outside unit, so no worries with the warantee :)

It ran fine for 6 hours+ but was broken by morning and now won't start. Outdoor unit fan starts, then there is a high-pitch whine and a shudder, which repeats three times, then the fan cuts off and that's the end of it :(

I already downloaded the manual, but won't open the outdoor unit because of the warantee issues.

Thanks!

[Brian_UK]

Nice to hear that your supplier is a good one, credit where credit is due.

Check with them also about the refrigerant charge....
Did the original unit have all of the gas in the outdoor unit or was it split between the inner/outer ?

I ask because it is possible that a simple swap of the outdoor unit to an already gassed indoor unit may create an overcharge of the system.

Also, the interconnecting pipework - are the quick-connectors self sealing or are you going have a release of refrigerant when you uncouple to unit? If so, then it is a BAD THING, illegal and all that sort of thing; also possible to injure yourself with the escaping gas/liquid.

Take care and good luck.

[Jimbo!]

Hi Brian

Yes they are self-sealing, and the unit was supplied with the valves opened. Obviously I can't pump it down unfortunately so I will double-check with the charge issue, it is a good point.

They say that they 'bench test' them all so maybe they will run the replacment up with an indoor unit to get the gas mix ~ correct?

Thanks!

[Gary]

Does the indoor fan run? Filters clean?

[Jimbo!]

Does the indoor fan run? Filters clean?
No, the vent opens and then after some period of time the run light goes off and the timer light blinks.

[Gary]

If you put the indoor fan in the "ON" position does the fan run? If you then reset the outdoor unit does the system work?

[Jimbo!]

Hi Gary

I've tried resetting it but it always does the same. Actually the indoor fan does run to start with, presumaby while it's measuring the indoor temp, but then it stops, the outdoor unit does it's thing and then it errors out after a few attempts.:(

[nike123]

Hi Gary

I've tried resetting it but it always does the same. Actually the indoor fan does run to start with, presumaby while it's measuring the indoor temp, but then it stops, the outdoor unit does it's thing and then it errors out after a few attempts.:(
Don't bother to try anything because outdoor and indoor unit communicate and if error is reported you cannot force anything. Call service guy.

[WCC73]

We just had a simaliar fault with a hitachi( the first one weve had issues with out of all the ones weve installed)
Blinking 4 times according to the factory is 9 times out of 10 a compressor or inverter fault

[Jimbo!]

That's interesting - it sounds like compressor partially seized to me, you can hear it start to turn but then the power is dropped, like it is failing to speed up in the time allocated?

[AcidSlasher]

question, how did u evacuate the pipework?

its possible that there are impurities in the system which has caused the compressor to seize.

for a DIY-er/non tradesman u do sound pretty knowledgable to me though, unlike many who have no idea but say/think they do.

[Jimbo!]

Hi, thanks for that!

This system I ordered with flexible lines and quick couple connectors, all pre-vac'd by the supplied. Being a decent brand I didn't want to mess it up.

I have done a couple of installs on copper, I read as much as possible then just had a go. Hired the pump and vac'd for 30 mins, all went OK. Those were cheap so I wasn't so fussed, risk and return if you like.

Supplier told me today they have had a few problems with these units, mostly the 3.5kW though. Hopefully the replacement will arrive soon.

[Jimbo!]

Just had an update from vendor, Hitachi are shipping a heater to fit to the compressor which supposedly will resolve this issue!

I'll post more once I get it next week.

[Jimbo!]

Just in case anyone is following this, now the outside temp has warmed up a bit it's working again! ;)

So hopefully the crankcase heater will indeed provide a permanent resolution :).

[nike123]

Lack of crankcase heater is consistent with error you are experiencing and could be solution for your problem.
That rise new questions.
1. What is outdoor temperature when you experience this error.
2. Does outdoor unit already have built in crankcase heater and if not,
3. Does that mean that is construction error or you are trying to use unit outside design conditions. ( outdoor temperature below working limits)

[Jimbo!]

Hi, thanks for the reply!

It cuts out when below zero seemingly, but not consistently. I don't think there is one in there already - but it's a new R410A system rated for use to -15*C.

The unit has a scroll compressor, so I'm wondering whether it is to do with some drops of liquid refrigerant finding it's way back to the compressor, which then won't start due to internal protection. Once evaporated it would then run normally.

I say that because the unit initially worked fine, freezing outside, but stopped overnight, and wouldn't restart for a few days. Then after a week it's all back to normal again.

Apparently Hitachi were puzzled by the problem and my supplier has been working with them, with faulty units, to try to get a permanent fix.

Obviously I'm a DIYer so much of the above is probably cr@p :D

[nike123]

Hi, thanks for the reply!

It cuts out when below zero seemingly, but not consistently. I don't think there is one in there already - but it's a new R410A system rated for use to -15*C.

The unit has a scroll compressor, so I'm wondering whether it is to do with some drops of liquid refrigerant finding it's way back to the compressor, which then won't start due to internal protection. Once evaporated it would then run normally.

I doubt that is scroll compressor. More likely is rotary type.
After prolonged standstill period refrigerant tend to accumulate in coldest spots of system and that could be compressor. In conventional units, compressor tend to start few times and internal OCR reacts. That generates enough heat to evaporate refrigerant and thiner the oil and compressor start with no problem after some time.
In inverter units that is not the case because inverter circuit limits the current and see that as compressor defect. If unit is not fitted with crankcase heater (or it is defective) and conditions are right, then you could experience symptoms as yours.
I heard that some manufacturers uses windings of compressor as heating element during standstill.


I say that because the unit initially worked fine, freezing outside, but stopped overnight, and wouldn't restart for a few days. Then after a week it's all back to normal again.That proves my point.


Obviously I'm a DIYer so much of the above is probably cr@p :DThat is not entirely the case.;)
You are good observer.

[Jimbo!]

Thanks for the detailed reply! You are right, it is a rotary type, my mistake. When the issue of the heater was mentioned, I did wonder why the windings couldn't just be used? Presumably, this would require a rotor lock though.

Thanks again!

[Gary]

I say that because the unit initially worked fine, freezing outside, but stopped overnight, and wouldn't restart for a few days. Then after a week it's all back to normal again.


If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that the outdoor coil froze overnight and then failed to automatically defrost itself. Is that correct?

To confirm this, the next time this happens you might switch it over to cooling mode to defrost the outdoor coil, then switch it back and see if the heating works.

[Jimbo!]

No, the defrost is OK - I mean the outdoor ambient was about freezing. The system was working fine when I left it, but come the morning it would not run, the indoor unit indicating outside unit failure.

It then would not work again, regardless of power cycles etc., for a couple of days. I then left it for the rest of a week, after which it again runs fine!

[Jimbo!]

Hi, in case anyone is interested.

Supplier duly provided crankcase heater which I installed under their direction:
http://sittingbourne.homeserver.com/downloads/Summerhouse/CompressorHeater.jpg

As it happens it's been really cold past few days, well below freezing on occasion, but system is running perfectly and no lock-outs :D.

Apparently the lock-out occurs only with thermoplastic tubing, not on copper. Not too sure why.

So final step I'm going to mount a frost-stat in a weatherproof box to control the heater, so it's only on when actually needed.

Thanks again!

[Brian_UK]

Thanks for the update Jimbo.

Glad to hear that the problem appears to have been resolved.

With regard to the crankcase heater, yes a thermostat may be an idea but unless you are concerned about the minimal electrical cost I would leave it connected at all times (well linked through the power contactor so that it isn't on when the compressor runs).

Also, nice photo, always welcomed.