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jackson
12-12-2007, 04:21 PM
I have a climatemaster ( multi clima ) single stage heat pump installed with a ground collector fitted. There is an error message appearing on the display E02. I do not have any info on this so if there is anyone who can help with this that would be great. I have tried the climatemaster agent in Ireland but I have not had any luck in contacting them. The only numbers that I can find on the machine are as follows;

Machine: M P 00 4 MH Z S.

John MacK
12-12-2007, 04:54 PM
E2 = High Pressure

It might depend on which controller etc you have though.

www climatemaster dot com have some technical info and pdf's etc. I've had a look and can't find a multi clima unit though..

jackson
12-12-2007, 11:15 PM
The only name on the machine is Multi Clima. Having searched to net for any info it appears they are a company based in France and are no longer in businness. From looking at the heat pump the pressure gauge on the collector side is at 0 which may indicate low pressure??. When I examined the filter there was a silt like residue present. My gut feeling is that the collector manifold may be leaking but I do not have access to verify this. Is there a check that I could do?

nike123
13-12-2007, 12:01 AM
Maybe display housig has name and type of display (controler) manufacturer? Something like this:
http://tinyurl.com/ywaj78
http://tinyurl.com/24g3yj

John MacK
13-12-2007, 01:13 PM
I have a climatemaster ( multi clima ) single stage heat pump installed with a ground collector fitted. There is an error message appearing on the display E02. I do not have any info on this so if there is anyone who can help with this that would be great. I have tried the climatemaster agent in Ireland but I have not had any luck in contacting them. The only numbers that I can find on the machine are as follows;

Machine: M P 00 4 MH Z S.


What makes you say it is a climatemaster? :confused:

If the only info on it is multi clima? :confused:

jackson
13-12-2007, 11:38 PM
Apologies, the installer at the time purchased the multi clima machine through the climatemaster agent in Ireland who must be a dealer for them! I presumed it was a climatemaster machine. I have since found out they are not the same.
There is a picture of my machine on multi clima.fr

nike123
14-12-2007, 01:13 AM
There is a picture of my machine on multi clima.fr

And, on that picture, it is visible that one of two controller I mentioned is one that control your unit. So, send us more information in order to help you!:confused:

jackson
14-12-2007, 09:00 PM
The only info on the dispaly is MICROTECH energy 210

nike123
15-12-2007, 12:19 AM
The only info on the dispaly is MICROTECH energy 210


This is manual for that controller:
http://tinyurl.com/3a927e

E02 is low pressure alarm!

jackson
18-12-2007, 11:34 AM
where can i find the fault codes. i.e what does E02 mean etc. Not much experience with heat pumps any ideas on why there is low pressure??

Grizzly
18-12-2007, 01:01 PM
Jackson.
The link nike123 has kindly supplied you is the only link I can find on the eliwell site.
Nether the less if you follow the link below and download the Tech. Bullitin No. 11 Alarm Codes.
E02 Is listed as minimum pressure.As most of their codes are generic this booklet will normally get you out of the poo!
Grizzlyhttp://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

http://www.invensyscontrolseurope.com/InvensysControlsEurope/en/ProductsServices/Eliwell/Documentation/TechnicalBulletins.htm

nike123
19-12-2007, 08:22 AM
where can i find the fault codes. i.e what does E02 mean etc. Not much experience with heat pumps any ideas on why there is low pressure??


This is list of alarm codes and description of each of them:
http://www.mediafire.com/?fujqdxzghey

Are you service technician or end user?

Low pressure could be because of many reasons, some are as follows: insufficient water flow on evaporator, low refrigerant, obstruction in low pressure part of refrigerant cycle, bad expansion valve etc....

jackson
23-12-2007, 08:27 PM
end user. really in trouble no heat for xmas.

nike123
23-12-2007, 09:20 PM
end user. really in trouble no heat for xmas.
Sorry to hear that, but you have got plenty of time to call service technician when you started this thread. You still have tomorrow morning to call service technician in order to help you (if you lucky).
Could be some minor thing, but it still need attention of specialist!
Don't you have some backup heat source?

Mary Christmas, I wish you luck tomorrow!

My schedule for tomorrow is full until 8 PM!:mad:

The MG Pony
23-12-2007, 10:09 PM
We all like to repair our own equip if we can, but sadly with this type of device with out being in it for a long time it is nie impossible for a end user to have any luck due to the many things it could be.

I'm afraid you will certainly need to call in a technician, but some thing in the mean time is check the pump and water/glycol mix and see how well it is flowing, it should be around 3gpm or so.

jackson
24-12-2007, 01:00 PM
Many thanks for all the info supplied. I have been trying to contact a technician since the problems begun way back but found it impossible to get a technician or plumber to even have a look at it. Hence I am on this forum talking to ye guys. I was present during the installation of the heat pump and although I am not a technician, I do have some knowledge of what is going on.
What I have noticed is, in the heat pump itself there are two temperature gauges. One is blue and one is red. The blue gauge monitors the collector temp. There is also an electrical switch fitted to the pipe going into the blue gauge. This switch trips and a fault E02 appears on the display. While I can turn off the heat pump and reset the switch the fault re appears. The indicator on that blue gauge starts to go in the minus direction i.e. gets colder and then trips.
As previously mentioned, the water pressure gauge on the collector itself is at zero. I have a filler loop fitted so I have been replenishing any lost water. There are also bottles valves fitted to vent any air in the system. But now, even though I have the pressure at 2 bar, the heat pump will run for 30 mins. or so and then shuts down!!

Andy
24-12-2007, 01:45 PM
Many thanks for all the info supplied. I have been trying to contact a technician since the problems begun way back but found it impossible to get a technician or plumber to even have a look at it. Hence I am on this forum talking to ye guys. I was present during the installation of the heat pump and although I am not a technician, I do have some knowledge of what is going on.
What I have noticed is, in the heat pump itself there are two temperature gauges. One is blue and one is red. The blue gauge monitors the collector temp. There is also an electrical switch fitted to the pipe going into the blue gauge. This switch trips and a fault E02 appears on the display. While I can turn off the heat pump and reset the switch the fault re appears. The indicator on that blue gauge starts to go in the minus direction i.e. gets colder and then trips.
As previously mentioned, the water pressure gauge on the collector itself is at zero. I have a filler loop fitted so I have been replenishing any lost water. There are also bottles valves fitted to vent any air in the system. But now, even though I have the pressure at 2 bar, the heat pump will run for 30 mins. or so and then shuts down!!


Hello Jackson:)

you most likely as usual have a problem with the ground loop (I assume you are using pipes not a bore well)
30min is better than nothing:confused:

You have probably about 20 to 30 loops in the ground, during installation these need to be pumped out with a tank and pump until all the air is removed (each circuit should be pumped out on it's own). The mains is then pumped out and the anti freeze is added.

Your problem is most likely one of the following, in the order I normally find them.

1/Ground loops not purged of air properly, leading to only a few loops actually working.

2/Un even lengths leading to the water taking the path of least resistance.

3/Failure of the water pump on the ground loop side.


In your case you seem to have a leak if you need to pressurise all the time. This has two effects, causing air to enter your system and as you are adding water you are diluting the antifreeze (causing a freeze up and taking the heat pump out on low refrigerant pressure and or water flow.

In theory it is simple.

1/ fix the leak

2/ purge the air

3/ add the glycol

4/ balance the ground loops

5/ run up the system and set the flow rate.

In practice the leak maybe anywhere and may require each loop to be checked on it's own.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards Andy :)

jackson
25-12-2007, 11:22 AM
Hi Andy,

Yes I am using pipes for the collector (40mm dia.). The configuration of the collector is as follows.
There are two manifolds, which are made from 100 mm box section. One manifold used for inlet and one outlet. There are 12 loops approx. I am unable to isolate each loop (which is a problem) as there are no isolation valves fitted to each loop therefore I cannot pump each circuit on its own. The fact that it appears that there is a leak I may as well fit these in the event of this occuring in the future.
Is it possible to add some glycol now to get me out of do do for now until I can track down someone to look at this for me!! I dont suppose you know anyone in Southern Ireland that could?
Anyway hope you all have a good Christmas and a peaceful New Year.

nike123
25-12-2007, 12:42 PM
How much water are you adding and how long you have pressure in system after that? I mean, is that leak is small (few liters of water per day) or big (immediately fall of pressure after stooping of refilling)

Andy
25-12-2007, 04:33 PM
Hi Andy,

Yes I am using pipes for the collector (40mm dia.). The configuration of the collector is as follows.
There are two manifolds, which are made from 100 mm box section. One manifold used for inlet and one outlet. There are 12 loops approx. I am unable to isolate each loop (which is a problem) as there are no isolation valves fitted to each loop therefore I cannot pump each circuit on its own. The fact that it appears that there is a leak I may as well fit these in the event of this occuring in the future.
Is it possible to add some glycol now to get me out of do do for now until I can track down someone to look at this for me!! I dont suppose you know anyone in Southern Ireland that could?
Anyway hope you all have a good Christmas and a peaceful New Year.

Hi Jackson:)

I don't think you problem needs a fridge guy.

Start by adding a shut off valve on each return loop at the header, shut them all and open and pump thru one circuit at a time. Look for signs like brown water when you flush (use a tank and pump to flush NOT the system pump and flush each loop on their own back to the tank)

You also pressure each loop with compressed air to leak test.


Don't forget use all the same type of shut off valve to even the pressure drop.

Also all your loops should be the same EXACT length.


Kind Regards Andy:)

richardb14
16-01-2008, 08:00 PM
im sure you have this figured out by now but just in case - Mike Cotter or Brendan will sort you out, they run www dot ahac dot ie (sorry not allowed to post the url)

to me it sounds like your ground loops are not installed properly

AYIBIBIO
04-02-2008, 09:17 PM
Many thanks for all the info supplied. I have been trying to contact a technician since the problems begun way back but found it impossible to get a technician or plumber to even have a look at it. Hence I am on this forum talking to ye guys. I was present during the installation of the heat pump and although I am not a technician, I do have some knowledge of what is going on.
What I have noticed is, in the heat pump itself there are two temperature gauges. One is blue and one is red. The blue gauge monitors the collector temp. There is also an electrical switch fitted to the pipe going into the blue gauge. This switch trips and a fault E02 appears on the display. While I can turn off the heat pump and reset the switch the fault re appears. The indicator on that blue gauge starts to go in the minus direction i.e. gets colder and then trips.
As previously mentioned, the water pressure gauge on the collector itself is at zero. I have a filler loop fitted so I have been replenishing any lost water. There are also bottles valves fitted to vent any air in the system. But now, even though I have the pressure at 2 bar, the heat pump will run for 30 mins. or so and then shuts down!!

Hi I will like to say a very simple thing here. Please try and get a good refrigeration technician to troubleshoot that unit. This is not a do it yourself stuff. It may be something simpl,, but to you who don,t know even the basic,, it's a big thing. Good luck.

DANNY

richardb14
05-02-2008, 12:51 AM
Start by adding a shut off valve on each return loop at the header, shut them all and open and pump thru one circuit at a time. Look for signs like brown water when you flush (use a tank and pump to flush NOT the system pump and flush each loop on their own back to the tank)


Don't forget use all the same type of shut off valve to even the pressure drop.

Also all your loops should be the same EXACT length.


Thats how powertech do their loops - they have the manifolds in a manhole for access as well. If the reverse return has been done properly at the header then it won't matter with regards to each loop being exact same length - it will be a balanced system, The longer you have the pump running during commisioning the more air you remove from the sytem, typically a 1000 metre ground loop should take 2-3 hours to flush properly. you should also fit automatic air vents back at the machine - always expect to top up the system 2 - 3 weeks after commisioning due to pipe expansion (if you use MDPE collectors)

jackson
08-02-2008, 02:44 PM
I have fitted new air vents and filters, expansion valve and automatic filler to the collector which is maintaining 1 bar pressure. I have tested the glycol level in the collector and even though it is low, it is still at an acceptable level for now. I have also made it possible to replenish any lost glycol. What is happening now is the heat pump runs for a day or two and then goes out on E02 again (low pressure). As the temp in the collector gets colder it trips machine. This happens every two days or so. The max. return temp I can set the machine to is 27 deg. Any higher and the machine trips much quicker. If you give the collector time to recover i.e heat up again, the heat pump runs for another two days!!

nike123
08-02-2008, 02:59 PM
It is obvious that you have problem with heat gain from your collector. Either is inadequate water/glycol flow or this flow is not balanced threw all loops. Or it could be that air is trapped in some of the loops. I don't think that soil conditions are changed from days when this pump worked OK.
You need someone to balance loops and check if water flow meet demanded for that heat pump.

nike123
08-02-2008, 03:02 PM
expansion valve
Did you mean expansion vessel?

jackson
08-02-2008, 04:07 PM
Did you mean expansion vessel?
Sorry, I fitted 1 expansion tank(mono ethylene glycol), 2 air separators, 2 flush points, 2 filters, 1 fill point.

The MG Pony
08-02-2008, 04:56 PM
certainly sounds like you either have an undersized loop, blocked loop or a bad pump or miss installed pump and or a choked heat exchanger or as Nike had sujjested an improperly balanced system.

You covers the water quality issues, have a close look at the pump ensure it is operating correctly, and if you are able check to see the pressure drop across the heat exchanger, perhaps it is choked off by debris by poor commissioning.

By all sounds the refrigeration side is operating as it should, so now we check the easiest things to rule out, being blocked Hx, Improper pump workings, then we turn our attention to further remedying the loop its self should it be blocked/undersized/leaking.

richardb14
08-02-2008, 05:48 PM
how big is the ground loop, what size is the heat pump?

I still think air in the system, most prob in your heat exchanger - you could unscrew the hose from the back slightly, see if any air comes out. what size brine pump are you using?

it could simply be you have extracted all the heat possible from the ground - if you have used slinky's then this could be your problem.

nike123
08-02-2008, 05:51 PM
Do you have thermometers on supply and return distributor and what are their values when heat pump is working?

richardb14
08-02-2008, 05:59 PM
Do you have thermometers on supply and return distributor and what are their values when heat pump is working?


good point!

what is the delta T

jackson
19-02-2008, 06:44 PM
when i checked the refridge gas levels they were low. I added more gas and tried to run the heat pump. I noticed that the expansion valve was icing up almost immediately and the heat pump tripped out the low pressure switch. I have also noticed that the pump on the collector side is quiet warm. I would have thought that this would always stay cold.

richardb14
19-02-2008, 06:50 PM
it's more than likely not short of gas - from what you are saying, your brine pump has air in it or is seized, this could cause your heat exchanger to freeze up causing low pressure error.

you really should phone either ahac in the south or powertech in the North for advice, whichever is closest to you.

if there is a bleeding screw on the brine pump, remove the screw and see if the pump is turning inside - you could switch it off and turn it manually with a screwdriver. I'm guessing the pump would either be a grundfoss ups 25/120 or a wilo top-s 30/10. both of these pumps can be tested this way

richardb14
19-02-2008, 06:51 PM
http://www.ahac.ie/

or

http://www.powertechireland.co.uk/

nike123
19-02-2008, 07:08 PM
Jackson, are you saying that you are fiddle with charge?
For that you need measuring instruments and knowledge. Without that, you could easy end up with broken compressor. Second, machine need doctor who is going to find cause and then prescribe medicine. You are applying medicine without knowing cause.
I found that is sufficient time past from Christmas till today for you to be able to find service tech. even if you are at north pole.

The MG Pony
20-02-2008, 04:22 PM
when i checked the refridge gas levels they were low. I added more gas and tried to run the heat pump. I noticed that the expansion valve was icing up almost immediately and the heat pump tripped out the low pressure switch. I have also noticed that the pump on the collector side is quiet warm. I would have thought that this would always stay cold.

Now I am afriad you are certaintly screwed, you wrecked it, you now MUST get in a technition who now has to do allot more work!, He must recover all the gase and recharge it properly on top of fixing the ground loop issue.

you took some thing simple that you could do your self and shot your self in your own foot by messing with the gas amongst insurmountable advice to the contrary!

The MG Pony
20-02-2008, 04:26 PM
Not trying to sound rud but it does rather burn us, being we all have put in allot of effort to help you and now by adding gas have made things considerably worse!

Befor it was a simple collector issue, now it is both collector and over charged system issue, you are now beyond the DIY realm, there is no alternitive but to get a skilled technition in!

richardb14
20-02-2008, 07:57 PM
I thought the comments were pretty fair and straight to the point - the charge in the Geothermal heatpump is very critical, now its a very expensive repair.

you cannot top up a geothermal system - it needs recovered and weighed in, well that's what you have to do now.

Sparky2010
11-01-2010, 01:45 PM
Hi Guys,
Im a newbie to this site but I am hoping with your help to become a little bit more enlightened as to the magical big Grey box in my garage that heats my house!
I have a similar machine and installation to the original poster of this thread (no other connection).
The machine has been working fine all along but since the cold snap has started it is cutting out on a E01 error which I understand is a high pressure fault. I have checked the filters and they are clear and I have good pressure in my collector.
When I get the E01 error I switch the machine off and press the reset buttons on the compressors and restart the machine. It begins again as normal and may work away for another day or so untill It cuts out again. Is it ok to keep doing this or will I cause damage to the machine?
Is the reason for this a faulty sensor? or simply because the ground is not replenishing its heat quick enough during the cold weather -1 to -10 deg c. or is it a problem with the ground loop ie balancing or glycol solution.
I wont be attempting to fix it myself (I know my limitations!) but I would like to know a bit more about it for myself.
Well I hope one of you guys can throw a bit of light on the subject for me.

Happy 2010

richardb14
11-01-2010, 03:00 PM
well firstly does your heatpump do heating and hot water? do you have underfloor heating?

if it is cutting out when doing hot water, you may be asking too much of the unit, try turning the stat down by one or two degrees, if it is cutting out when heating you may try adjusting the speed of your pump - thats if it isnt already at full speed. basically you have reached a critical temperature in the heat exchanger where the refrigerant pressure will be high, you just need to address where you can either turn the delivery temperature down or if there is any way to remove more heat from the exchanger quicker.

hope that helps!

oh and what make of machine is it?

al
11-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Sparky

what part of the country are you in? It may be the sizing of the heat pump, condenser pump tripping intermittantly or ground loop pump tripping intermittantly.

al

Sparky2010
12-01-2010, 11:29 PM
Hi Al and Richardb14,
Thanks for replying to my distress call!
The heat pump is a french model called Multi Clima and was supplied by climate master here in Co. Kerry. Multi Clima have since gone out of buisness I belive. The HP does my heating only and I have an emmersion top up for my domestic hot water. I have underfloor heating in the house and I oversized the heat pump at the time of build in 2000 in anticipation of extending the house at a later date. It has worked away fine all along and has just started complaining during the really cold spell. It seemed to cut out on the really cold days once it reached a temp of 40 deg. The temperatures have risen here in the past few days and its chugging away normally again ! Both Grundfoss pumps within the machine seem to be working at full speed too

redroge
14-01-2010, 08:52 PM
i cant remember of the top of my head if your fault code is high pressure or low pressure, if its high pressure check you have enough water in the heating side 1 bar standing pressure if its low pressure check your glycol content in the ground loop